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by aparent » Thu Sep 03, 2015 3:28 pm

I was referring to the ball facing 2nd during the back swing prior to stride out, not the actual arm circle. I think this is what blue was talking about because her downswing during the actual delivery is in pretty good shape, she rotates internally into release nicely and has a good pull down instead of a push. She has the hand behind the ball during the back swing though, but like I said, it is minor in her case because she corrects it as she starts the actual forward arm circle of the pitch. But it is an easy fix so may as well just do it.

your other advice about how to use PCs, and forums is spot on. I have seen some very good pitching coaches and a few that will waste your time and money with wrist flicks and a figure 4 finish. Likewise the internet is littered with horrible instruction. Using a combination of video of the greats as a means to crosscheck what a pitching coach is saying and finding other bucket dads with more experience (and DDs that throw gas :) is the way to go.
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by Mark H » Thu Sep 03, 2015 3:30 pm

Have a little time now to watch the video. Very much agree about being upright/not bent over at the waist at release. This costs speed, accuracy and spin rate. Bending forward like this moves the release point farther out in front of your hip/lower torso. This means the rapid change in the shoulder from externally rotated (palm/ball pointed at second close to the bottom of her downswing) to internally rotated happens either early compared to release or happens over a longer period of time/degrees of arm rotation. None of that is good. It also costs accuracy because the mind knows best where the hand is in space/at release, the closer it is to the leg. It costs spin because the whip is maximized at the time the shoulder is internally rotating. If release is after that/farther out in front because she is bent over then spin is not maximized.

Watch the hip action and sequencing of that action of Ueno and Cat and compare to Zoey's hip action. I'd prefer you tell us what you see and then let's discuss it. You don't have to be right I'd just like to understand the way you think.

Zoey looks to have the physique and quick twitch muscle fibers to be at least a good pitcher. She still has at least a year to easily make big mechanics changes. Use it. Don't settle for strikes. Get the mechanics right. Let the accuracy/command come when it comes. Accuracy gained using flawed mechanics is a bad thing as she will be tempted to go back to that in game situations when everyone is encouraging her to "just throw strikes". Not what she needs for her long term success.

No telling what her ceiling is. Could be very high. If she's going to do more than pitch one more year in rec ball, don't settle for strikes. Accept the temporary lack of accuracy that may come with mechanics changes and focus on the mechanics first. Accuracy later. May not be much later but if she's getting graded on throwing strikes she will be less likely to embrace change even though it's for the best long term.

If your local instructor isn't wearing her out about the piking over/bent at the waist at release and talking about the hip action, it may be time to go watch other instructors teach and interview them.
Last edited by Mark H on Thu Sep 03, 2015 3:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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by Mark H » Thu Sep 03, 2015 3:32 pm

aparent wrote:I was referring to the ball facing 2nd during the back swing prior to stride out, not the actual arm circle. I think this is what blue was talking about because her downswing during the actual delivery is in pretty good shape, she rotates internally into release nicely and has a good pull down instead of a push. She has the hand behind the ball during the back swing though, but like I said, it is minor in her case because she corrects it as she starts the actual forward arm circle of the pitch. But it is an easy fix so may as well just do it.

your other advice about how to use PCs, and forums is spot on. I have seen some very good pitching coaches and a few that will waste your time and money with wrist flicks and a figure 4 finish. Likewise the internet is littered with horrible instruction. Using a combination of video of the greats as a means to crosscheck what a pitching coach is saying and finding other bucket dads with more experience (and DDs that throw gas :) is the way to go.


Agreed with all that.
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by Mark H » Thu Sep 03, 2015 6:07 pm

As a word of encouragement, she clearly has more speed in her if the mechanics issues discussed by all here are fixed.
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by Diesels_dad » Fri Sep 04, 2015 5:21 am

Hip needs to come thru......Look up "Balance Beam drill" do not start with throwing ball. work up to pitching

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0WFdoq2VLo
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by aparent » Fri Sep 04, 2015 7:23 am

The balance part of this is good. Everything else, the pushing down the circle, the slamming the door, the elbow pointing to the catcher etc. is really poor instruction. Why do these myths persist when not a single top notch pitcher does them?
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by Mark H » Fri Sep 04, 2015 7:29 am

Will get around to watch the balance beam drill video but again, addressing the hips, check the movement timing and sequencing of the three pitchers in the link, Finch looks a little different in form but in function and sequencing she is the same. I find it an interesting contrast.
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by Mark H » Fri Sep 04, 2015 7:36 am

What about her hand at the start of the drill? What about her hip sequencing/timing compared to Cat and Ueno?
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