Questions for the Umps

[Sftbll4ever]

Difference could be between a strike and no strike.

[Bretman]

I agree that saying both "dead ball" and "foul" seems redundant, since a foul ball is dead anyway. But that is precisely how it is supposed to be called by the ASA umpire manual.

Being in or out of the batter's box makes a difference when the batter is hit (being in the fair portion or foul portion of the box does not- for this rule the batter is either in the box, any portion of the box, or she is outside of it). If in the box, it is foul by rule. If she is outside the box, she is out. And I think that is the fundamental reason for this call being taught the way it is.

If the umpire habitually yells "foul" anytime the batter is hit by her own batted ball, it could create a problem. If she was hit outside the box, and the umpire called "foul", technically once a ball is ruled foul the call cannot be reversed. But the batter should have been out and a coach could argue that his player wasn't out, since the ball was called foul. If not an arguement, then certainly some confusion can be prevented by calling the dead ball first.

Calling dead ball first effectively kills the play, then lets the umpire make a quick evaluation of whether the batter is in or out of the box- a moment to assess things before calling "foul" or "out".

Also, the base umpire may kill the play if he sees the ball hit the batter. If he yells foul, that can screw things up if the plate umpire judges the batter was hit outside the box. The base umpire should only say "dead ball" then let the plate umpire make the determination of if the batter was in or out of the box (ie: foul ball or batter out).

I think that calling it this way leads to some consistency and uniformity in the call and can stem off some potentail confusion.

[txfpcoach]

Something on this note I've been wondering...

Batter swings as described and the ball fouls off the batter and goes foul... (which I suppose is why they call it fouling off the batter)

Ump yells DEAD BALL!, presuming it was seen.

Why is it a dead ball if it is foul anyway? Is it just a carry through because it hit the batter prior to going foul or is there some play that can continue on a foul ball (like that) if it is not called dead? I understand potentially advancing on a pop foul, but not on a fouled down and off the hitter foul.

So is it just the result of a progression of events? I actually had a u-trip umpire the other day tell me that the dead ball call depends on where the batter is in the box at the time of being hit. Talk about adding confusion to the fire...!

It is called a dead ball because a ball in foul territory can roll back into fair territory and become live until it is touched by a defensive player at which time it is either foul or fair depending on its location.

Example player bunts ball rolls outside the line but the spin on the ball redirects it into fair territory it is then a fair ball. By calling it a dead ball there is no play to be made in fair territory or foul

[dittoz]

Difference could be between a strike and no strike.
In this case, we're talking about on a swing, so no - always a strike.

It is called a dead ball because a ball in foul territory can roll back into fair territory and become live until it is touched by a defensive player at which time it is either foul or fair depending on its location.
Now THAT, I hadn't thought of. Definitely makes sense...

Bretman -
that explains it right up to the after dinner mints. The manual and the consistency makes the most sense of all. (at least for why it's done, anyway!)


Sorry to hijack the post - thanks ya'll!