Confiscating bats at tournament

[Demonboy]

They can keep it for the duration of the tournament. I'm fine with that.

[Skarp]

Skarp, I agree that anyone using an altered bat deserves to be punished, severely.
My point was the statement that if a player is hurt the bat is automatically confiscated. Like it is automatic that it must be illegal.
And I wonder if my DD's well broken in and used bat would fail testing and I would be held liable somehow. That's the scary part.

Agreed...that sounds plain silly. The ump should have independent reasons for suspecting that the bat is doctored in order to confiscate it, not just an injury.

As far as the actual testing goes, I have no idea what goes into it or how they distinguish between an altered bat and one that is just really well broken in. But if the process isn't demonstrably sound and accurate, it's validity could presumably be challenged in court if things ever got that far. You're right that it's scary though, because liability would almost certainly depend entirely on whether the bat was deemed to have been altered.

[bradrhod]

The test that NSA and ASA use official American Society of Testing and Materials (ASTM) tests for bats. NSA still uses the ASTM F1890 and ASA switched to the newer ASTM F2219.

Both sets of tests are well documented and understood. They are pretty simple tests.
1 - Find the sweet spot and Mark it.
2 - Fix the handle of the bat in a vice.
3 - Fire a ball at the sweet spot at the tests rated speed.
4 - Measure the exit speed of the ball. If it is below a certian number, the bat passes, above the bat fails.

[Skarp]

The test that NSA and ASA use official American Society of Testing and Materials (ASTM) tests for bats. NSA still uses the ASTM F1890 and ASA switched to the newer ASTM F2219.

Both sets of tests are well documented and understood. They are pretty simple tests.
1 - Find the sweet spot and Mark it.
2 - Fix the handle of the bat in a vice.
3 - Fire a ball at the sweet spot at the tests rated speed.
4 - Measure the exit speed of the ball. If it is below a certian number, the bat passes, above the bat fails.

Okay, but what does that mean? Is it necessarily the case that a failing bat was altered?

[MTR]

The test that NSA and ASA use official American Society of Testing and Materials (ASTM) tests for bats. NSA still uses the ASTM F1890 and ASA switched to the newer ASTM F2219.

Both sets of tests are well documented and understood. They are pretty simple tests.
1 - Find the sweet spot and Mark it.
2 - Fix the handle of the bat in a vice.
3 - Fire a ball at the sweet spot at the tests rated speed.
4 - Measure the exit speed of the ball. If it is below a certian number, the bat passes, above the bat fails.

Okay, but what does that mean? Is it necessarily the case that a failing bat was altered?

Not at all. They will check the compression and unless there is evidence that is so obvious Ray Charles could see it, the bat is opened up (cut in half), which is why there is a replacement clause. It is also why UICs are told to not be so quick to make unsupported assumptions.

BTW, remember that if you buy a bat on e-bay or by some other method than a reliable retailer, you may not know exactly what you have, but are liable if that bat has been altered (and yes, it has happened).

[hotcorner]

Thanks for all the info everyone. It would also be a scary thing to know that they are going to cut your last composite bat in half. I better stock up. By the way, no one's bat was confiscated at this tournament. There was one umpire though, that threw out a 2004 Rockettech. His reasoning was that the pins could fall out and the bat could come apart and hit someone. I got a chance to look at the bat and the thing looked like it just came out of the rapper. The director rightly reinstated the bat.

[jofus]

The test that NSA and ASA use official American Society of Testing and Materials (ASTM) tests for bats. NSA still uses the ASTM F1890 and ASA switched to the newer ASTM F2219.

Both sets of tests are well documented and understood. They are pretty simple tests.
1 - Find the sweet spot and Mark it.
2 - Fix the handle of the bat in a vice.
3 - Fire a ball at the sweet spot at the tests rated speed.
4 - Measure the exit speed of the ball. If it is below a certian number, the bat passes, above the bat fails.

So, at the least, they mark the bat, which, unless it comes off, makes it illegal (right?, no markings on the barrel?) and then tighten the handle in a vise, which I imagine isn't necessarily good for your grip.....

[Joe Dirt]

BRADRHOD said "If the bat became hot as the normal part of usage, this is the fault of the bat manufacturer, and they would be most likely candidate for liability. You used the product as directed, so you have done nothing wrong."

The problem with that is that NSA sends the bat to the manufacturer for inspection. Hmmm! What would you expect them to find. That they are liable???

[bradrhod]

Sorry, I am more familiar with ASA. As already mentioned, ASA will test the bat. If it fails the test they will inspect it. Inspecting it may include cutting it open, xray, scanning micron xray, and other material inspection. If they find the bat was altered post manufacture, they will likely come back to you to invesitigate how the alterations came to be.

If they find that the bat is running hot, but see no signs of post manufacture altering they will likely share that data with the manufacturer and start to track that bat model looking for any trend. If they see a trend, then they will may take action, such as banning the bat.

As far as the vice hurting the bat. The tests are always performed at ASMT certified labratories. They have to prove that they have the staff, equipment and understanding to perform materials tests without damaging the material. Bat testing is primarily done at Washington State University in Pullman Washington. They have a great lab with great staff. The WSU staff involved have a very detailed knowldge of all of these materials and how they should be treated. http://www.mme.wsu.edu/~ssl/

[jofus]

Well, I have to imagine that cutting a bat in half hurts the performance of the bat no matter how good they are at their job. How exactly do they replace it if it is a bat that is no longer in production? Assuming that they conclude there is no evidence of tampering, that is, although the testing procedure seems less than 100% conclusive to me. Granted, I'm a chemist and hated physics.......

I still maintain that it seems crappy to me that an injury is all that is needed for them to take the bat, with no evidence of tampering. How many girls get hurt a year from perfectly legal bats v. illegal bats?