The Gold Meeting Tonight

[Sam]

You don't know what you are talking about

Why did I know that would be your response. Anyone that doesn't agree with you always gets that reply.

they don't have to play as many games.

And why should they. What is the benefit to them or the tournament to have teams going 2 and Q, getting mercied in some cases, just because some team wants to call themselves Gold and anyone that has a checkbook can sign up for the tournament.The top 25 teams are not there to give the weaker teams games so their players can be seen.

I'm speaking the truth in order for others to access how much credence to give to your opinion.

For Example: Haning could come on here and tell me that I don't know what I'm talking about....he would have automatic credibility and mine would be diminished.

Even if you lose both games, your players might get to play against Haning...or Rico...or Anderson....or Farnsworth, et al. And your kids might play well in front of a college coach with a need. I'm betting Corona Xpress players felt pretty decent about their 3-0 first round loss last year to Haning's college all star team. Their pitcher might have gotten a better offer to go to school because of that one game.

Here are the facts:

2008 - 35 first round games
5 Blowouts

That means 86% of the games were competitive and worth playing. Now lets look at who got blown out by whom:

Explosion 15
San Jose Lady Sharks 1

SoCal Pride 14
CA Flames 2

Jets 11
Sudden Impact 1

OC Impact 10
Silicon Valley Glory 2

Xplosion 10
Strike Force 0


60% of the blowoutees were from NoCal.

86% of the games competitive, but Region 14 wants to pare the teams in half.

As Bill Murray once said:

"Thats the facts Jack...."

[Mercury]

Gone in 2.6, Why not. Seems the rules are changing in midstream. Why can't they change for everyone. That would leave 12 more qualifing spots to make Gold. Isn't it true now that if you win Gold Nationals you don't get an automatic berth the next year. Just seems that everyone should have to earn Gold. I'm sure the rich would earn status as Gold again but you never know (that's why we play the games).

[anonlooker]

Sam, I think I see your point. What I don't understand...

If this change will have such a debilitating effect on so many teams / players, why were there only 25 reps at the meeting? Why isn't there a concerted effort by the teams getting screwed to block the change? And if it's "bad" for the sport, why is ASA apparently ready to adopt the changes?

[movinup]

Look, the 12 teams that qualified for Gold Nationals last year have already (and continually) proved that they are worthy of being classified as Gold teams. I personally think that Cal Lite and Corona Angels Phil should also be classified as Gold even though they went elsewhere to qualify.

I understand the point that a few make that all should have to go through the classification process. However as a coach whose team has to go through the process this year I want the 12-14 teams to be classified so I don't have to run into one of those teams in the first or second round - it makes it much more likely we will join that group. The only conceivable reason to have them play would be to insure that they don't "loan" their players to their buddies to help them qualify.

I also believe after the first year that 18A will beome a more viable division in So Cal and it won't be a death sentence for a team like it is now. When we moved up from 16's a few years ago I would have never called my team an 18A team for fear of losing my players - even though that is where we should have played.

[Old Darter]

Just because those 12 teams made it to nationals last year does not mean they don't have to play in a qualifier again THIS year. Truth is, movinup, you'll still have to go thru them to GET TO Nationals. And with what, maybe 16 or 17 spots up for grabs in Quals or Regions, those teams stand a pretty decent chance of WINNING their way to a berth at the show. The only place you wouldn't play them would be in the proposed Feb qualifier. So yahoo for winning in February, and all the false sense of security that brings with it. You have to play the big girls in June to qualify.

But here's an observation...so far the only discussion revolves around the SoCal Assoc's recommendation. I believe the Regional ASA powers solicited input from ALL the associations. I wouldn't be so certain that all the SoCal recommends make it to the final draft, or that even if they do there won't be additional points suggested by other associations. Nobody knows the whole picture yet, unless you've attended the meetings all across region 14!

[ssarge]

And why should they. What is the benefit to them or the tournament to have teams going 2 and Q,

In a double elimination tournament, 1/4 of the teams will ALWAYS be 2 and Q. Nature of the beast. If the BBs, Firecrackers, Cruisers, and Angels played a 4 team D.E. tournament, one of THEM would be 2 and Q.

[Sam]

Look, the 12 teams that qualified for Gold Nationals last year have already (and continually) proved that they are worthy of being classified as Gold teams. I personally think that Cal Lite and Corona Angels Phil should also be classified as Gold even though they went elsewhere to qualify.

I understand the point that a few make that all should have to go through the classification process. However as a coach whose team has to go through the process this year I want the 12-14 teams to be classified so I don't have to run into one of those teams in the first or second round - it makes it much more likely we will join that group. The only conceivable reason to have them play would be to insure that they don't "loan" their players to their buddies to help them qualify.

I also believe after the first year that 18A will beome a more viable division in So Cal and it won't be a death sentence for a team like it is now. When we moved up from 16's a few years ago I would have never called my team an 18A team for fear of losing my players - even though that is where we should have played.

You are dreaming......and this change will cause you to lose your players if you don't qualify each year at the Gold level....it is a self-fulfilling prophecy. You might as well coach rec ball.

[Sam]

Sam, I think I see your point. What I don't understand...

If this change will have such a debilitating effect on so many teams / players, why were there only 25 reps at the meeting? Why isn't there a concerted effort by the teams getting screwed to block the change? And if it's "bad" for the sport, why is ASA apparently ready to adopt the changes?

Many of the managers aren't smart enough to:

a) know that anything is changing
b) know that the change will detrimentally effect them
c) do anything about it.

ASA hasn't done a thing. This is Region 14 only.

[movinup]

Sam, let me give you exhibit A for moving up - Explosion. They won 16A nationals in 2004 and finished 7th in 18A in 2005. They moved to gold in 2006. They didn't lose their players to the big boys when they went to 18A and their players were recruited. I'm sure they could have gone gold in 2005 and been competitive, but would they qualify for nationals, who knows. If that is a successful route for the 16A national champons it is probably the route most move up teams should use. Most of these teams moving up this year didn't qualify for nationals or did very poorly at nationals - and now they are gold?

As for excluding the big boys in January and February, the ONLY goal is to gain one of the 40 +/- spots to be classified as gold. If I know I don't have to run into those teams during those two tournaments then my chances increase dramatically. I'm sure this is the position that all of the "next tier" teams would choose. I suspect that after these two tournaments are played, many of the non-classified teams will lose one to three of their best players that are talented enough to play gold. That is the way it should be - gold will then be a stronger division. Most of these players will likely to go to the "second tier" teams and they will become stronger, giving them a better chance of knocking off the top teams in June, when it all counts.

Sam, as to coaches not being aware of the meeting, that is BS. Our ASA reps sent out 3 separate emails to all of the contacts listed on the summer 2008 rosters (at least on the gold teams). There were posts on this subject on Heybucket and the other site. Finally, the proposal and meeting information was listed in bold as a link on the front of the So Cal ASA web site. The only ones that weren't aware of this have their heads buried in the sand. That's probably the same people that think they are gold when they are not!

[Sam]

Sam, let me give you exhibit A for moving up - Explosion. They won 16A nationals in 2004 and finished 7th in 18A in 2005. They moved to gold in 2006. They didn't lose their players to the big boys when they went to 18A and their players were recruited. I'm sure they could have gone gold in 2005 and been competitive, but would they qualify for nationals, who knows. If that is a successful route for the 16A national champons it is probably the route most move up teams should use. Most of these teams moving up this year didn't qualify for nationals or did very poorly at nationals - and now they are gold?

As for excluding the big boys in January and February, the ONLY goal is to gain one of the 40 +/- spots to be classified as gold. If I know I don't have to run into those teams during those two tournaments then my chances increase dramatically. I'm sure this is the position that all of the "next tier" teams would choose. I suspect that after these two tournaments are played, many of the non-classified teams will lose one to three of their best players that are talented enough to play gold. That is the way it should be - gold will then be a stronger division. Most of these players will likely to go to the "second tier" teams and they will become stronger, giving them a better chance of knocking off the top teams in June, when it all counts.

Sam, as to coaches not being aware of the meeting, that is BS. Our ASA reps sent out 3 separate emails to all of the contacts listed on the summer 2008 rosters (at least on the gold teams). There were posts on this subject on Heybucket and the other site. Finally, the proposal and meeting information was listed in bold as a link on the front of the So Cal ASA web site. The only ones that weren't aware of this have their heads buried in the sand. That's probably the same people that think they are gold when they are not!

Exlplosion is the exception and certainly not the rule. They chose to use their berth to 18A Nationals vs. going Gold.

Gee...I didn't get an email...not a single one. Some may have found it difficult to go to OC on a Wednesday evening...I don't know. Maybe you can tell me this...when was everyone informed that Region 14 was thinking about this change? Who asked for it? Why? Why were the coaches informed THIS year that it was a done deal and don't bother arguing that the change shouldn't happen? Did they take a vote? Who was at the meeting when they decided to do the change? None of this is on any of the Region 14 websites....wow....

Again...remind me about how this change helps a single young lady playing softball at this level....I can certainly remind you how it hurts a lot of young ladies' chances for playing at the school they wish to play for....and who gives a flying crap about the strength of the Gold Divsion...the teams that qualify for ASA Nationals are the strongest teams....watering down the Region 14 tournament will do nothing to change that....