ASA Nationals Qualified 18G

[NuggDawg]

RE: Objecting to 18 Gold teams rostering college players

If I get this argument correctly, it says, "Let's eliminate the better players, just because they're better."

* This presumes that the eligible college players are better.

__________

Hey Bucket, I just couldn't take it anymore on eteamz.

[GoldTBfan]

Sorcerer did recover from their beat down getting a very fortunate losers bracket draw playing the #2 Sting team and the Jets.

It was the San Diego Renegades that the Sorcerer beat not the #2 Sting team. The #2 Sting team was busy beating up on the #1 Sting team before the lost to the Corona Angels.

[Demonboy]

Sorcerer did recover from their beat down getting a very fortunate losers bracket draw playing the #2 Sting team and the Jets.

It was the San Diego Renegades that the Sorcerer beat not the #2 Sting team. The #2 Sting team was busy beating up on the #1 Sting team before the lost to the Corona Angels.

I stand corrected. Sting or Renegades, my point still stands.

[Sam]

RE: Objecting to 18 Gold teams rostering college players

If I get this argument correctly, it says, "Let's eliminate the better players, just because they're better."

* This presumes that the eligible college players are better.

__________

Hey Bucket, I just couldn't take it anymore on eteamz.

Its the same principle ASA uses that seperates players by ages and prohibits travel players from competing in rec all-star competition. The college scholarship players aren't just better, they are better because it is their job to play softball in college.

[DHBHitting]

Losing a tough game is not the same thing as getting run off the field.

Response: True, but it happens, nobody is exempt from that, and it can happen to anyone especially when you are playing a team that is just as highly talented as you are.

You held these teams up as examples (your examples not mine) of teams that are very competitive using minimal college players.

Response: And they are very competitive, you mention the losses but what about the quality wins that these clubs picked up, they beat some people too. Yes they took some losses that is going to happen, but all the teams I mentioned competed well and will more than likely be right in the mix this weekend in Stockton.

All of them got blown out at least once. Sorcerer did recover from their beat down getting a very fortunate losers bracket draw playing the #2 Sting team and the Jets.

Response: Don’t recall Sorcerer playing any of the Sting teams, they fell into the losers bracket against a San Diego Renegades team that will qualify when it is all said and done as the Renegades have a very solid club. They then played the Jets who I was particularly impressed with as they where able to win 7 or 8 games in a row in the losers bracket I believe dismantling a very solid Pastime club to get to Sorcerer, believe me I seen this game it was no cake walk for Sorcerer to say the least, the Jets are dangerous and could flat out hit, believe that ask anyone who played em, and they will ultimately qualify as well. So Sorcerer got by two clubs who where very solid teams and who ultimately in my opinion will be in Oklahoma.

The Grapettes played for the berth and lost 15-0 in 3 innings. Remember, these were your examples.

Response: Sure the Grapettes had a tough draw running into the Batbusters in the qualifying game, everyone knows the Batbusters are stacked and are very, very good. They then had a tough draw falling into the losers bracket to face the Firecrackers, so having to face the #1 and #2 GOLD teams in the country in back to back games was a bad draw and a tough break to say the least. They gave it their best but obviously could not get it done that weekend against those clubs, but that is just how it goes, they will come to play this week in Stockton. But thing is maybe they wont, maybe they will, one never knows, but thing is not everyone can get it done, not everyone wins, or qualifies at GOLD this is not 16U where all you have to do is win some metro with all local clubs, this is GOLD ball, it is the highest level, it is what it is suppose to be, tough.

So yes, all of those teams where competitive, did they get beat, sure, did some of them get hammered, absolutely, but what does that mean? It happens in GOLD ball, you just pull yourself up and you try again. I will say this, I bet you at least 3 of those clubs qualify for Nationals and win a few games down there, which anyone associated with GOLD ball will tell you is a very difficult feat to say the least. Hell it is tough to even qualify as we seen this weekend with Marty's Angles, So Cal A's, and a host of other really powerful teams not qualifying. But hey, it happens, this is GOLD ball, you don’t get it done all the time, the teams are just too good for that, and for those that choose to compete at this level I'm sure they will tell you that is just the way it should be.

[NuggDawg]

Its the same principle ASA uses that seperates players by ages and prohibits travel players from competing in rec all-star competition. The college scholarship players aren't just better, they are better because it is their job to play softball in college.

In general, scholarship players play because they love to play. If they don't love it, they're not going to stick themselves on a Gold squad during their summer off.

It's their love of the game that got them a scholarship. And, It's their love of the game that makes them better; it wasn't the scholarship funds.

[Demonboy]

Losing a tough game is not the same thing as getting run off the field.

Response: True, but it happens, nobody is exempt from that, and it can happen to anyone especially when you are playing a team that is just as highly talented as you are.

You held these teams up as examples (your examples not mine) of teams that are very competitive using minimal college players.

Response: And they are very competitive, you mention the losses but what about the quality wins that these clubs picked up, they beat some people too. Yes they took some losses that is going to happen, but all the teams I mentioned competed well and will more than likely be right in the mix this weekend in Stockton.

All of them got blown out at least once. Sorcerer did recover from their beat down getting a very fortunate losers bracket draw playing the #2 Sting team and the Jets.

Response: Don’t recall Sorcerer playing any of the Sting teams, they fell into the losers bracket against a San Diego Renegades team that will qualify when it is all said and done as the Renegades have a very solid club. They then played the Jets who I was particularly impressed with as they where able to win 7 or 8 games in a row in the losers bracket I believe dismantling a very solid Pastime club to get to Sorcerer, believe me I seen this game it was no cake walk for Sorcerer to say the least, the Jets are dangerous and could flat out hit, believe that ask anyone who played em, and they will ultimately qualify as well. So Sorcerer got by two clubs who where very solid teams and who ultimately in my opinion will be in Oklahoma.

The Grapettes played for the berth and lost 15-0 in 3 innings. Remember, these were your examples.

Response: Sure the Grapettes had a tough draw running into the Batbusters in the qualifying game, everyone knows the Batbusters are stacked and are very, very good. They then had a tough draw falling into the losers bracket to face the Firecrackers, so having to face the #1 and #2 GOLD teams in the country in back to back games was a bad draw and a tough break to say the least. They gave it their best but obviously could not get it done that weekend against those clubs, but that is just how it goes, they will come to play this week in Stockton. But thing is maybe they wont, maybe they will, one never knows, but thing is not everyone can get it done, not everyone wins, or qualifies at GOLD this is not 16U where all you have to do is win some metro with all local clubs, this is GOLD ball, it is the highest level, it is what it is suppose to be, tough.

So yes, all of those teams where competitive, did they get beat, sure, did some of them get hammered, absolutely, but what does that mean? It happens in GOLD ball, you just pull yourself up and you try again. I will say this, I bet you at least 3 of those clubs qualify for Nationals and win a few games down there, which anyone associated with GOLD ball will tell you is a very difficult feat to say the least. Hell it is tough to even qualify as we seen this weekend with Marty's Angles, So Cal A's, and a host of other really powerful teams not qualifying. But hey, it happens, this is GOLD ball, you don’t get it done all the time, the teams are just too good for that, and for those that choose to compete at this level I'm sure they will tell you that is just the way it should be.

Last time I checked, Corona Angels and So Cal A's got beat which DOES happen to competitive teams. They did not get BLOWN OUT which rarely happens to competitive teams in a Gold qualifier. My point was, your examples to support your argument had big holes in it (all the teams got SMOKED). I don't care either way other than being entertained at your inablility to admit it.

By the way I agree with the basis of your argument. Let the college players play (I'd use them in 10u if I could figure out a way to make 'em look younger. Think I could sneak that Monica Harrison kid in).

[DHBHitting]

Its the same principle ASA uses that seperates players by ages and prohibits travel players from competing in rec all-star competition. The college scholarship players aren't just better, they are better because it is their job to play softball in college.

Response: So do you extend this to include all players that have singed scholarships to play in college in the fall as well? What about those that have verballed? I mean most of these kids are future college kids right? The ones who have actually signed will be actual college players in just about 5 weeks so what is the difference in the skill level between the two outfielders for the Firecrackers who are going to CAL and just great players, and a kid who has come back from Fullerton to play outfield for the Jets? What is the difference in talent levels? My argument is not much, if any at all, and quite frankly, you have some seniors that are flat out stronger players than allot of the college talent I seen out there this weekend.

[DHBHitting]

Well Demonboy we will have to agree to disagree because I do not believe that getting blown out in and of itself means you are not competitive. Does it mean you where not competitive in that game sure, but what about the other 3 or 4 games that these clubs won agaisnt solid competition?

And where college players the reason they where blown out, or where they just out played for that hour and half time period by a club who is just as talented as they are, maybe even more so obviously.

My point is, it happens, does not necessarily mean you are not competitive overall, just means you where not competitive agiasnt that particular club at the particular time.

[Sam]

Its the same principle ASA uses that seperates players by ages and prohibits travel players from competing in rec all-star competition. The college scholarship players aren't just better, they are better because it is their job to play softball in college.

In general, scholarship players play because they love to play. If they don't love it, they're not going to stick themselves on a Gold squad during their summer off.

It's their love of the game that got them a scholarship. And, It's their love of the game that makes them better; it wasn't the scholarship funds.

Thanks for disregarding what I wrote and posting that nonsense. The thing that seperates the college scholarship players is that they have a year in as a pseudo professional softball player. Love of the game???? Give me a break.