ASA being sued

[fastpitchrocks99]

Ever hear of "just say no". They probably found an attorney with nothing better to do to try to make a case against ASA.

[Goldcoloredglasses]

I am not opposed to pitch counts. It would add to the developement of more pitchers.
But just imagine the overall impact on fastpitch softball. Talk about leveling the field....

[Sam]

...these results question the assumption that underhand pitching does not create significant stress on the shoulder and elbow. Further investigation is needed to fully determine the influence of underhand pitching on overuse injuries. Attention should be directed toward
prevention of injury by teaching proper pitching mechanics, strengthening the shoulder and rotator cuff musculature, and regulating the number of pitches and mound appearances for the female fast pitch softball pitcher.

I don't think that was the original assumption used in justification. Strenuous and overuse of any body part is going to be stressful. I believe the assumption WAS that the underhand motion was not as stressful as that of the overhand pitching you see in baseball. Unfortunately, I wouls have to assume that softball enthusiasts and carrot chasers allowed that to morph into it not being stressful at all, which obviously, isn't so.

AFA Sam's perception that nothing will be done until someone is sued, I think that is a load of socialist crap. If you want to go after someone to blame, at least go after those who are to blame, not just the organization with the deepest pockets.

If Sam or any other poster makes a libelous comment about anyone, should that person be able to successfully sue HeyBucket and all moderators for allowing him to post? Or should Sam be held accountable for his own actions?

Mike,

Apparently ASA talks about overuse injuries in the coaching certification classes. They could go the extra step and invoke pitch limits or inning limits. They choose not to because they think players will flock to other organizations. They are gladly sacrificing the arms of these young ladies in order to keep their membership numbers robust.

That means they will have to be sued in order to do it. The coaches won't lobby for the change, the associations won't lobby for the change, so what is left? The courts.

[Sam]

What seems to be missing from the discussion here is pitch mechanics. Like baseball pitchers some softball pitchers don't have good mechanics and over burden their elbows, shoulders, wrists, knees, hips and ankles because of it. With the obsession by parents of pitchers to get their "stars" into travel many neglect to find a suitable coach to teach proper pitching mechanics. As well many girls simply are not adequately conditioned so as they tire their mechanics get lazy and they become more prone to injury.

Do pitchers throw too much...depends on the pitcher. Some girl's physiology allows for more wear and tear than others. Parents should pay attention not so much to the work load but to how your DD responds. Be sure she lets you know about unusual or reoccurring pains in the joints.

Otherwise...suck it up!

This is the idiotic advise that gets these kids injured. My kid had perfect mechanics. She did suck it up. She had a 6 inch needle put into the joint in her shoulder. I had to hold her hand while they did it, knowing it was my fault. I took my DD in for shoulder surgery and drove her to all of her PT afterward. She still wanted to pitch after the surgery.

Mechanics have little or nothing to do with it. It's a stupid thing that pitching instructors say....the same instructors who will tell you that throwing a softball is different from throwing a baseball and you can throw all day long indefinitely.

If you are going to put something stupid on this board go ahead and type it....and delete it.

[Sam]

I don't agree with the lawsuit, but at least it started this conversation! I definately think people need to realize fastpitch pitchers are not robots and their bodies will show wear and tear. My DD is 17 and requires 2-3 days off pitching every week to be effective as well as not throw more than 3 games in a two day period. She recently pitched almost 10 games in 15 days and needed to take a couple of weeks off for the pain and inflammation in her wrist to subside. The other pitcher recently was out with back pain. Our team only has 2 pitchers and I feel too much wear and tear is being put on them. I feel teams should carry at least 3-4 pitchers so there are pitching options and pitching relief. This goes for catchers too. Coaches, players, and parents need to use common sense. Anything done in excess is unhealthy!!!

Perhaps if the other fielders were required to throw the ball as hard as they could 200-300 times in a day then do it again the next day and so on, there would be a little more light shed on this subject.

Your daughter shouldn't be throwing more than a game a day and no more than two games in a weekend....and that is pushing it.

Take your kid off of this team. Don't complain about your pitchers being overworked. Do something about it.

[Sam]

I am not opposed to pitch counts. It would add to the developement of more pitchers.
But just imagine the overall impact on fastpitch softball. Talk about leveling the field....

The effect would be the exact opposite of what you describe. The number of teams would decrease, in effect raising the level of travel teams and rec teams alike. Everyone would benefit.

It works for baseball, why not softball.

[MTR]

I am not opposed to pitch counts. It would add to the developement of more pitchers.
But just imagine the overall impact on fastpitch softball. Talk about leveling the field....

I don't think there is much doubt that any restriction would dilute the level of the game, but maybe that would help the game more than an extra 3' of pitching distance.

[AM Softball]

Can you say "FRIVOLOUS", if the court system allows this then every kid and their parent will sue every sports organization they played in. It's part of the game and we all know it. Maybe we will have to start signing injury waivers upon making a TB team.

Maybe they can go back and use the ASA insurance to get the medical treatment she has received.

Frivolous? Really? The can point to at least one other national softball organization that has maximum pitch counts. They can certainly claim that ASA should know about the dangers of overuse injuries and that overuse injuries to pitchers account for nearly all the overuse injuries in the sport. They can claim that all the ASA certified coaches told them that girls softball is different than boys baseball....girls can pitch an unlimited number of innings.

Maybe ASA will do something about it. Premier could take the lead here. These kids get to college and their arms are junk....if they make it that long.

The parents won't do it voluntarily and the coaches won't limit the pitchers' innings unilaterally.

I hope these people win their case.

These softball organizations could also point to numerous athletes, like myself, that pitched every weekend, HS, TB, heck I even pitched 5 full 7 inning games in one day with the 5th game going 13 innings and NEVER had any injuries. Maybe they should blame the instructors that obviously didn't teach them very good mechanics too. smh

This is ridiculous and I'm pretty much on the players side 99.9% of the time. Ridiculous! I hope they spend tons of money to get told the same thing. "You are ridiculous."

BTW, I didn't have a pitching coach until 16 so basically, my Dad said well, we'll just throw 200 pitches a day (we didn't know any better) and I did that pretty much from 12 until college. EVERY player is different. You cannot say pitching that much hurts all of these kids because for every case of one being hurt, you have ten cases of not being hurt...

What they should do is make "dead periods." My daughter does not pick up a softball from Aug to September and takes 4-5 weeks off at Christmas. It is even a team rule and parents fight me on it year after year. Parents control what happens to their kids so take your own precautions.

Well, there are Nolan Ryans and Mark Prior/Stephen Strasburgs. I coach college pitchers, dear, and they can't throw more than a game a day any more. It hurts.

Maybe you can answer some questions for me....Why would MLB teams put their pitchers on pitch counts. Do MLB teams throw the same starting pitcher in back to back games on the same day? College baseball teams?

Do you know how many players have suffered injuries from adhering to mandated pitch counts?

Just asking.

I think throwing overhand is different. Sometimes when I would practice in the outfield and have to make those long throws, my arm would hurt...not a hurt where I would have to go to the doctor but a dull pain (kinda like if you sleep wrong and your shoulder hurts for a few days...maybe it is a coincidence, maybe overhand hurts more. In my case, and I truly believe everyone is different, I had no problems throwing underhand. The only answer I have is they are completely different so it is difficult to compare.

[MTR]

I am not opposed to pitch counts. It would add to the developement of more pitchers.
But just imagine the overall impact on fastpitch softball. Talk about leveling the field....

The effect would be the exact opposite of what you describe. The number of teams would decrease, in effect raising the level of travel teams and rec teams alike. Everyone would benefit.

It works for baseball, why not softball.

It diluted baseball all the way to the majors.

What it would do is create a wider chasm between travel and recreational teams.

[MTR]

Mike,

Apparently ASA talks about overuse injuries in the coaching certification classes. They could go the extra step and invoke pitch limits or inning limits. They choose not to because they think players will flock to other organizations. They are gladly sacrificing the arms of these young ladies in order to keep their membership numbers robust.

Rubbish. The numbers are what they are. Like it or not, ASA still provides the best competition in the game. Seems to me the number of teams heading to Chattanooga is a good indication of that. Unfortunately, ASA makes many business decision that give incentive to some of these ludicrous lawsuits. Some I understand, but in some circumstances completely disagree.

That means they will have to be sued in order to do it. The coaches won't lobby for the change, the associations won't lobby for the change, so what is left? The courts.

How about holding parents to the responsibility they freely accepted when the child was conceived?

I am so tired of the cowardice displayed by the people of this country when it comes to accepting responsibilty associated with being an adult. If you want to send a message, would it not be more beneficial to all if the actual culprit, the parent, be held to the appropriate standard than creating another level of bueracracy to monitor an ineffective and uninforceable rule?