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Burn the Ships - A Softball Documentary

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by Schmick » Wed Oct 03, 2018 3:03 am

The players run slower, throw the ball slower, swing the bat (which is lighter) slower in softball than the athletes the same age in baseball do but softball is faster?

It's ridiculous statements like that that kill any argument softball would try to make.

It's not an emotional subject, facts are all that matters.
Men's college world series had just under 360 thousand fans buy tickets to the 16 games in 2017. How many seats were sold at the women's college world series?

In 2016, no woman's college softball team averaged even 3k fans per home game. The same year LSU averaged 10.5k fans per game for their baseball team.

The very best high school softball players play in college, do the very best high school baseball players play in college?
Last edited by Schmick on Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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by Under the Radar » Wed Oct 03, 2018 7:09 am

Schmick wrote:The players run slower, throw the ball slower, swing the bat (which is lighter) slower in softball than the athletes the same age in baseball do but softball is faster?

It's ridiculous statements like that that kill any argument softball would try to make.

It's not an emotional subject, facts are all that matters.
Men's college world series had just under 360 thousand fans buy tickets to the 16 games in 2017. How many seats were sold at the women's college world series?

In 2016, no woman's college softball team averaged even 3k fans per home game. The same year LSU averaged 10.5k fans per game

The very best high school softball players play in college, do the very best high school baseball players play in college?


Maybe true for ticket sales but Television Viewership was much higher for Womens College World Series then it was for Mens Baseball College World Series.
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by Sue Trubovitz, Turbo » Wed Oct 03, 2018 7:31 am

Not to argue, rather talk actual numbers and stats with a stopwatch.

Simple google search provided
an average Major League Baseball player run time from home to First in 4.2, 4.3 seconds.
Fast lefty hitter Billy Hamilton
was timed at 3.61.
baseball home-to-first is 90 ft

in softball while the base path from home to First is only 60 feet.
right-handed batters in 12u
(12 year old) are getting to first base in 3.4 seconds.
In 14u Runners are getting to first base in 3.0 and breaking 3.0 to first base.
Fastest runners in 14u are running times like 2.8. And we see this as softball players get older and get to College 2.7, 2.8 common.
There are exceptionally Elite Runners who are getting to first base in 2.5, 2.6 seconds!!

The speed in which a play needs to be made is faster!

Definitely a difference in the size of the field , the smaller field on softball makes the game faster!

For instance the ball could be hit to the right fielder, in softball, the ball could take 2 seconds to reach the right fielder and the expectation is the right fielder would be able to field the ball and throw a runner out at first base in under 3.0 seconds.

While in baseball the ball could just be barely reaching the right fielder in 3 seconds.

Impressive, in fastpitch softball a defense can turn a double play in under 3.0 seconds.
That happens in competitive 16u. And have timed it in 14u.
Last edited by Sue Trubovitz, Turbo on Wed Oct 03, 2018 12:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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by Sam » Wed Oct 03, 2018 7:41 am

Sue Trubovitz, Turbo wrote:yes there is a tremendous amount of softball teams in so cal, but most of the time when you go out to watch many at younger levels you see a lot of average. And I will even throw in below-average. Because there is so many teams and so much average, until you actually go to a venue where you see the top players performing, it's hard to recognize that there is an actual skill level being develope . certainly know that there are extremely more softball teams than there are baseball teams in Southern California and we know this because every softball field almost every night of the week and every weekend is filled while there are baseball fields left empty. And we see this year round in Southern California where softball is a year-round sport. I think if we're going to start comparing Apples to Apples or oranges to oranges or apples to oranges then you need to see all levels to compair to Club baseball and you will see equality there. And when you start looking into colleges of course there's different level of college ball that's played and at that level you can see absolutely Talent in both apples and oranges.


as for the size of the field and the differences between baseball and softball or apples and oranges ....
The speed of softball is so much faster than baseball it really is a different sport. The strategies involved in softball and the speed and involvement of The Catcher in the game eclipses baseball to such a degree that it creates more defensive strategies. Also in hitting
strategies with small ball/ bunts &
slap/drive hitters and regular batters make the game differ from the slowness of baseball. With the challenge of the close home run fence and outfielders being able to get to the ball fast enough to make plays at the bases changes huge strategy and how to play the ball and the role of players in the Outfield especially being required to make plays that they would never make in baseball. Equally so with the catcher and their role behind the plate with back pics not just Runner stealing but adding back pics changing the game again with speed.

in the late 80s they moved the pitching plate back 3 feet. the reason for this was because of the pitchers duel that was going on and the 1-0 or 1- 2 extra inning ball games that was not attracting very much fans. so they move the pitching mound back to give the batter's a greater opportunity and put action on to the bases. Along with the change in the ball which definitely has more flight and the addition of the new technology with the bats again created more game speed for softball. it is true that the explosive amount of the combination of changes has created a lot more home runs. Which has created a lot more excitement. Which has created a huge fan base for softball. where if you been paying attention, ( over the past years)has created a huge fan base on multiple channels on ESPN. Along with colleges having games on local channels for their communities.even in states where weather is inclement and people cannot play Outdoors softball is now being played in indoor facilities in its form called speed softball.

let's not forget our fabulous military which has used softball on many u.s. posts around the world. Softball is a form of entertainment and competition for our service personnel and have been part of the culture in military so much so that our Collegiate military institutions have women's softball teams. Something you also don't see very often are the men's Fastpitch leagues which have been ongoing since the early 1930s. softball has also taken on a diverse forms with slow pitch softball also. where you notice as the generations grow older men don't keep playing baseball they switch to slow pitch or find a fastpitch softball league because there is no baseball for everybody in their future.

let's get down to the difference in pitching distances ....is everybody aware of the calculation of the miles per hour of the pitch and reaction time?
for instance a pitch thrown in fastpitch softball at 50 miles an hour is equal to a 70 mile an hour pitch in baseball the reaction time is equal. As that number increases it increases for both.
55 sb = 77 bb
60 sb = 85 bb
65 sb = 89 bb
70 sb = 94 bb
these numbers were taken from some different charts and there are varying numbers on different charts you can look up.


if you want to talk about size' if size really matters' then we could remind everybody the baseball is 9in round and a softball is 12in round a softball weigh almost 2 ounces more than a baseball. I'm sure somebody
can offer the mathematical equation to resistance in that. Years ago, at 5'3.3" and at 142 pounds ( in my early 30's , not in my prime college years) on the UCLA baseball field, playing bb, was able to crush fly balls hitting the Home Run wall with a pitcher only throwing 80 miles an hour. those pitchess were extremely slow for me because I was used to 70 mile-an-hour pitching from softball. ( because my reaction time was set comprable to a 90 plus mile an hour pitch,) had to wait and wait and wait for the 80 mile an hour pitch to get to me and then I crushed it to the wall. So if you want to talk...."Size Matters" actually mechanics matter in hitting the ball correctly!!!!

another great difference between softball and baseball is in baseball the pitcher is given a raised mound and that was created to give the pitcher a better advantage and pick up speed on there throwing to home plate ( gravity and body throwing at a downward slope). And softball the pitching plate is flat which does not give that advantage ...someone could probably share that mathematical equation that goes along with that throwing from a downward slope Etc. And softball that pitcher being on a flat plate has another advantage and that is the ability to throw a pitch on up-slope, otherwise known as a rise ball. across-the-board it is well known that professional baseball players will struggle and strike out against the top notch softball fastpitch pitchers.

there are so much Sports out there for everybody to enjoy! enjoy what you like to watch! enjoy what you like to play! for me when I did get paid to play professional baseball ( yes a women's professional bb League)I found it to be extremely slow and I will say boring. As for my 47 years in softball and my involvement in softball, not only here in Southern California, but with players Across the Nation, I know without a doubt that softball has grown and continues to grow! Softball is a sport that people enjoy watching and I know many Baseball fans who do watch softball. maybe that's because baseball does not last year round and softball does. Maybe that's because there is incredible Talent on the field. Maybe it's because you can watch an entire game without having to take 6 hours trying to get to the conclusion of it. I would recommend if you do have an interest in softball whether it's for your daughter who's in 8th grade or you have a young kid that might be interested in playing. Or maybe you're a senior citizen kicking back... go watch softball! it's just as fun as baseball and softball is a lot faster and has a lot more strategy. when you get into the competitive levels fastpitch softball kicks ass and there are plenty of top-notch challenge. in Southern California watching everything that's happening at all the local fields for the most part you might be watching average but don't worry there's elite softball out there and they're doing a great job!!!

speaking of how many baseball teams there are out there... certainly don't see very many... so possibly comparatively the players who are better baseball players are playing baseball vs ones who are average level don't play on a team at all. in softball there's a place for all levels of softball players. Thankfully! I know 30 years ago travel ball softball was only for the top Elite softball players. But I think it's a good thing that there's a place for everybody in travel ball! Imo, Fastpitch softball is completely different then baseball.


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by Sue Trubovitz, Turbo » Wed Oct 03, 2018 8:05 am

Here are some other numbers to compare apples and oranges. Using another Google search ask what is a 'major league baseball' pop time average for catchers home to 2nd and results were 1.9, 2.0

Fastpitch sb pop's to 2nd
I have 12 year old students who are throwing a 2.0 to second base.
Have 14 year old catchers throwing in 1.8-'s

currently have an incredible student who's 14, throwing 65 miles an hour and has broken 1.8 pop times. College D1 programs look for their catchers to throw faster than 1.8.

last year just had students go off to college who were consistently throwing 1.6 + 1.7
This is common and an expectation to play top Sb!

The speed of which the play
is made is a faster time.

yes we could compare the difference in throwing speeds of a baseball versus a softball.
There is a mathematical equation between the diameter of a ball, the weight of the ball, the resistance of gravity, the pull of the seams and the wind disbursement of the ball breaking through the air that are all part of throwing speed.

Throwing speeds would be different because the ball is different in size & weight.
Last edited by Sue Trubovitz, Turbo on Wed Oct 10, 2018 7:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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by Sam » Wed Oct 03, 2018 6:12 pm

Apparently Turbo missed my point.... :shock:
Run your mouth when I'm not around
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by Sue Trubovitz, Turbo » Wed Oct 03, 2018 7:59 pm

Hi sam , was googling bb numbers.
Read your post after posting.

Actually was interesting to compare those numbers about Major League Baseball...might as well share them.
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by Schmick » Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:41 am

So make the distance 1/3 shorter and then lie about the athletes being faster?

That's just dishonest. It'd be like Elaine Thompson saying she was faster in 2016 in the sprints than Usain Bolt, who was almost a full second faster, if she only had to run 66 meters and he ran 100.


When you're that dishonest off the bat, why bother reading the rest of your propagandic drivel?

Falsus In Uno
Falsus In Omnibus
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by Schmick » Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:46 am

Under the Radar wrote:
Schmick wrote:The players run slower, throw the ball slower, swing the bat (which is lighter) slower in softball than the athletes the same age in baseball do but softball is faster?

It's ridiculous statements like that that kill any argument softball would try to make.

It's not an emotional subject, facts are all that matters.
Men's college world series had just under 360 thousand fans buy tickets to the 16 games in 2017. How many seats were sold at the women's college world series?

In 2016, no woman's college softball team averaged even 3k fans per home game. The same year LSU averaged 10.5k fans per game

The very best high school softball players play in college, do the very best high school baseball players play in college?


Maybe true for ticket sales but Television Viewership was much higher for Womens College World Series then it was for Mens Baseball College World Series.



Based on What? The same scientific methods they used to say Hiliary was going to win the 2016 presidential election?

Physical bodies, in the seats, paying for tickets, which CWS had more fans? The men's or the women's?
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by Schmick » Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:52 am

What you're trying to say is that because the playing surface is so much smaller in softball than it is in baseball, softball happens at a quicker pace than baseball may happen.

Essentially what you're saying is as baseball is to tennis, softball is to ping pong.
I'll concur with that
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