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Riseball vs screwball, dropball vs fastball?!?!

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by curveballerguy124 » Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:01 pm

Why do I bring this up well I had a rather lengthy conversation about this with another pitching instructor who threw at the college level. We were discussing various pitches and their relevance in the college game and in today’s softball game.

First off I am going to start by saying I throw a riseball a dropball and a changeup and I teach my pitchers/students to do the same. She threw a fastball, screwball, curveball, riseball, dropball and change up..... That’s a lot of pitches however, in all fairness I never seen her throw. She did tell me that her curveball was temperamental and the dropball she threw was a turnover drop. So my assumption was she had various motions for her pitches, I could be wrong though.

She stressed to me the importance of a proper fastball and a screwball. I strongly disagreed with her on both of those pitches and here is why. I would like to know what the school of thought is with our heybucket community on this!

Here are my thoughts on this I throw a peeldrop which is basically a fastball with 6/12 rotation I snap it off my fingertips and I keep it low and it drops hard. Downside to that pitch if I do not release it low it’s a flat fastball to whichever corner I throw it. The upside I can throw it as hard as I can possibly throw it, so long as I keep it low it breaks downward. Easy to control easy to locate. My point why throw a pitch as hard as you can that stays flat on purpose when you can throw that same pitch and make it break downwards?!?

Now my thoughts on a screwball this one is simple for me. My riseball turns into a screwball when I do not properly stay underneath that pitch and get proper backspin on it. When I mess up my riseball it becomes a screwball. So for that reason learning a screwball makes no sense to me. In my personal opinion a riseball is far more effective and in the event you do mess up the delivery of your riseball it will still turn into a pretty good screwball. Moreover, my motion stays the same for all 3 of my pitches so there is no need to change my motion or delivery in any way that might take me out of rhythm!!!
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by notthisagain » Fri Jul 26, 2019 4:52 am

curveballerguy124 wrote:Why do I bring this up well I had a rather lengthy conversation about this with another pitching instructor who threw at the college level. We were discussing various pitches and their relevance in the college game and in today’s softball game.

First off I am going to start by saying I throw a riseball a dropball and a changeup and I teach my pitchers/students to do the same. She threw a fastball, screwball, curveball, riseball, dropball and change up..... That’s a lot of pitches however, in all fairness I never seen her throw. She did tell me that her curveball was temperamental and the dropball she threw was a turnover drop. So my assumption was she had various motions for her pitches, I could be wrong though.

She stressed to me the importance of a proper fastball and a screwball. I strongly disagreed with her on both of those pitches and here is why. I would like to know what the school of thought is with our heybucket community on this!

Here are my thoughts on this I throw a peeldrop which is basically a fastball with 6/12 rotation I snap it off my fingertips and I keep it low and it drops hard. Downside to that pitch if I do not release it low it’s a flat fastball to whichever corner I throw it. The upside I can throw it as hard as I can possibly throw it, so long as I keep it low it breaks downward. Easy to control easy to locate. My point why throw a pitch as hard as you can that stays flat on purpose when you can throw that same pitch and make it break downwards?!?

Now my thoughts on a screwball this one is simple for me. My riseball turns into a screwball when I do not properly stay underneath that pitch and get proper backspin on it. When I mess up my riseball it becomes a screwball. So for that reason learning a screwball makes no sense to me. In my personal opinion a riseball is far more effective and in the event you do mess up the delivery of your riseball it will still turn into a pretty good screwball. Moreover, my motion stays the same for all 3 of my pitches so there is no need to change my motion or delivery in any way that might take me out of rhythm!!!


Whats this? Are you learning how to pitch or debating adding new pitches because more movement and locations would be a good thing?
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by curveballerguy124 » Fri Jul 26, 2019 9:42 am

Neither, I've been pitching since before most people on this site had kids.... On the contrary I am debating the effectiveness and lack of movement of those particular pitches!!!

Now let me clarify something although I teach and throw a drop, rise and change that is an over simplification of how I actually throw. For instance I can make my rise ball curve up and out or down and away, and I can make my drop ball break inward on a righty like a cutter. I can put true 6/12 spin on my drop-ball almost 6/12 spin on a rise-ball and 3/9 spin on a curve-ball/change. However, I classify those pitches as either drop, rise or change-up, the reason for that is because they all change elevation or speed....

So that being said, a fastball in softball makes no sense to me, why throw a pitch as hard as you can that stays flat on purpose?? My argument with that coach was a proper peel drop which is essentially a fastball with 6/12 rotation can be thrown as hard as possible but it wont stay flat it will MOVE.... As for the screw-ball its a hard pitch at the hands that's slightly elevated, again stays pretty flat. My argument was a drop ball in (above mentioned cutter) or a rise-ball or low-rise ball in, is far more effective because again they move and change elevation!!!
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by notthisagain » Fri Jul 26, 2019 10:14 am

Got it. You don't like to call your pitches the same names that are commonly used.
You say you only throw a rise, drop and changeup. But actually you do throw pitches that are curving and swerving in and out which would be screwballs and curveballs, or even curve-drop.
Got it.
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by curveballerguy124 » Fri Jul 26, 2019 11:06 am

The argument was effectiveness of fastballs & screwballs, again I DO NOT throw those pitches intentionally or teach them. If I mess up on my drop-ball it turns into a fastball if I mess up on my rise-ball it turns into a screwball......So I argue the effectiveness of those pitches thrown intentionally. Not how many creative names I can come up with for pitches that are dropping and rising!!!

Perhaps I can demo for you one day and you can get a better idea of what I mean. I throw live at STC in Anaheim all the time bring a glove and meet me there or bring your kid I will throw live BP to her free of charge....
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by Battle » Fri Jul 26, 2019 3:56 pm

I agree with most of what you said. I believe north and south movement with a good changeup is the way to go. Like you , I never understood the east and west movement being their go to pitches unless it hurts to throw rise/drop or no control. I never was a believer in the peel drop or maybe I just never seen it thrown right but never the less the roll over just has more movement although the peel is easier on the elbow and shoulder.
I can see what you are saying about throwing a pitch as hard as you can like the peel unless you are using the drop as an off speed pitch. If that's what a pitcher is after then that would explain throwing the roll over versus the peel.
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by notthisagain » Fri Jul 26, 2019 5:08 pm

curveballerguy124 wrote:The argument was effectiveness of fastballs & screwballs, again I DO NOT throw those pitches intentionally or teach them. If I mess up on my drop-ball it turns into a fastball if I mess up on my rise-ball it turns into a screwball......So I argue the effectiveness of those pitches thrown intentionally. Not how many creative names I can come up with for pitches that are dropping and rising!!!

Perhaps I can demo for you one day and you can get a better idea of what I mean. I throw live at STC in Anaheim all the time bring a glove and meet me there or bring your kid I will throw live BP to her free of charge....


Haha no thanku on the demo.
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Ok you only want to throw those three different pitches and are an instructor who doesn't teach throwing a screwball or curveball. Simple argument. Not all pitchers master the rise ball effectively. What else would they mix in. Learn to control both. More pitch locations.
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by notthisagain » Sat Jul 27, 2019 4:23 am

How about curveballerguy explain why when you can put more movement on pitches and throw screwballs and curves, how come you dont want to? Very common pitches.
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by curveballerguy124 » Tue Jul 30, 2019 11:49 am

@Not, Yes I am an instructor who teaches three different pitches I do teach a curve ball once they have learned to throw a proper rise-ball.... And you are right not all pitchers master the riseball affectively because a correct rise is difficult to learn. My argument for that is master at least two pitches a drop-ball and a change-up if that’s the case. The biggest problem I see is parents will bring their daughters to me and tell me they throw six different pitches. In reality they really only have two and those two pitches are far from being mastered..... Listen I’m not making this stuff up I see it quite a bit!! It’s a shame if kids would just focus on learning one pitch at a time correctly with proper spin they would be far better in the long run!

As for the second part to your question:How about curveballerguy explain why when you can put more movement on pitches and throw screwballs and curves, how come you dont want to? Very common pitches. I don’t know how many times I can say this I don’t throw a screwball I don’t teach a screwball. The reason for that I feel a rise-ball is far more effective and the time a student spends learning a screwball is time they take away from learning a rise-ball which in my opinion is a much better pitch! Now as far as curveballs go I do throw them in games I’m not gonna say I don’t my ratio in any given game is about 60% drop balls 20% offspeed 15% rise-balls and about 5% curveballs. I am not against teaching my students the curveball but again I need them to learn a riseball before I will teach them a curveball because the two go hand-in-hand.... By "curveball" I don't mean drop-curve either because that is still a drop-ball

This is the type of curveball I'm referring to: https://youtu.be/LmiVfY--SXk
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by notthisagain » Tue Jul 30, 2019 2:31 pm

View your response as personal preference with no support, only its difficult. Argue then accomplish something else first. Srewball sets up rise. Rise sets up screwball. Spins away from plate like curve. Same strategy opposite side of plate. Nothing against your philosophy. But even in your own words the difficulty of learning an effective rise, not all pitchers can master it. While learning rather have a bad screwball or curve atleast spinning out, than a bad rise flattening out.
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