Follow
Donate to HeyBucket.com - Amount:

Welcome Anonymous !

Your Fastpitch Softball Bible
 

Fastpitch Discussions

Listen to your ?

What's on your mind?

by notthisagain » Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:38 am

[/quote]

I hear what you are saying but totally disagree. This thought process is antiquated. I feel like you have either been out of the game for a long time or have been speaking to someone that has. Even though that sounds like an attack, I am moreso verbalizing my guess as to where that type of thinking is coming from.

Way way too many coaches are wolves in sheep's clothing. Even with doing your due diligence many ill-equipped coaches try tirelessly to hide the truth long enough to get you and your daughter on board and then right when the honeymoon is over they act like they own your child while she is on "their field. Sorry coach, that is my kid. I don't see you at their school events. I don't see you at the doctors office when they are sick. I don't see you standing their with your checkbook out ready to pay for their college if they don't get an athletic or academic scholarship. That is my kid and my responsibility. I allow you to coach my daughter and that is an honor. And for me, it is an honor for my daughter to play for a coach deserving of trust and respect, mainly because it is nearly impossible to find. Great coaches don't need to focus on this kinda doodoo because in my opinion, alot of what makes them great is that they understand the dynamics and prove or have proven time and time again that they are worthy of trust. It is my job to stay out of the way when a real coach is coaching. But you must earn that respect over time, not just with a title.

You state that a parents most important role is to teach them to be a good person, but not to be the manager of their sports career. How about stepping back and thinking about what "teaching someone to be a good person" means and what it takes to accomplish that. Does that mean that you teach them to fulfill their commitments even when the other side of that commitment doesn't live up to their end? Does that mean never speaking up when you see something wrong because its not nice to push back? And if you were raised to be a "good person" do you as a parent allow a a coach to mislead or mistreat your child because your kid "made a commitment" and should "always accept the consequences of the decisions that [you] make."

Our role as parents can not be chalked up to a one-liner. And in my opinion it does include managing their sports path at a young age. Because if we aren't managing it then who is? Are you assigning a quasi-random man or women, that you truly barely know, with the responsibility of designing a major portion of their development? You got some 'splaining to do Lucy![/quote]

Mission Accomplished !
notthisagain
 
Posts: 137
Joined: Thu Jul 25, 2019 7:07 am

by Defty » Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:55 am

Spazsdad wrote:
Defty wrote:
I hear what you are saying but totally disagree. This thought process is antiquated. I feel like you have either been out of the game for a long time or have been speaking to someone that has. Even though that sounds like an attack, I am moreso verbalizing my guess as to where that type of thinking is coming from.

And you sound like a person that hasn’t been around long and buy into the do whatever feels good at the moment and if there is a bump in the road change lanes and go somewhere else. You act like having sketchy coaches or instructors is somehow a new phenomenon that never had to be dealt with before. the current mindset is now infecting college sports and transfers are through the roof because little Suzy never had to deal with any adversity and are ill prepared when it comes around. And it always comes around
Many team issues are because parents only see the world through their own goggles wrt their kid and her abilities.


First off, I unlike many sheep don't buy into anything. I gather information and make an informed decision based on reality. Not feelings, and most definitely not because something has always been "that way" so it shouldn't change.

Do you disagree with leaving team or instructor because something is sketchy. In fact, what even is your point?

If you buy something from somewhere don't you expect to get what you paid for. Why is it that you accept something less when it comes to your daughter? Is that because it doesn't affect you directly and she is the only one that has to deal with it?

"Many team issues are because parents only see the world through their own goggles." Is your suggestion for people to stop seeing things through their own eyes?

You are correct though. The current climate is changing. Are you gonna just try and hang on to antiquated thinking or change with the climate? I for one don't believe that something shouldn't change just because it has always been done that way, but my Grandpa does.
Defty
Premium Member
Premium Member
 
Posts: 78
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:59 pm

by xyzdude » Wed Oct 09, 2019 11:43 am

To Defty and others... I am definitely an old and old school guy. I have more than a few years experience as both a father-coach and as a higher level type coach with no child on the team. I know many great coaches and instructors across the country! I have helped many, many young women with their college selection process and continue to do so (for no fee I might add). I continue to be involved in the sport in a volunteer and professional way but no longer as a coach. Two of my daughters played college level sports - my softball player attended a D1 school with a nice athletic and academic scholarship. I will also say that I am very lucky in that, my kid was going to go to college on my dime regardless of getting or not getting athletic money.

It is difficult to find a team that is a right fit for your child, but too many parents look for teams to fit their agenda not for the real needs of their daughter. The truth is that most parents are terrible at being objective about their daughter's skill level and tend to read in traits to them that sometimes just aren't there. As the child gets older, the over-involved parent seems to need to double down because now the whole recruiting thing comes into play. The parents create so much drama that many of their daughters eventually just leave the sport. You will say she just lost interest or wanted to focus on something else when in truth, you probably ruined it for her. Here's a fun thing to do --- go to a 12U or lower level 14U game and watch a team have their at-bat. Count the number of times each batter looks at her dad sitting in the stands after each swing. Those are likely girls playing the game to make dad happy - not because they love it. They need the immediate feedback from their dad. If I were a shrink, I'd tell you to just yell out to her from the stands - I love you honey even if you have a bad at-bat! By the way, these are often the players who get cut quickly if they make the jump to a highly competitive team who has a competent coach - that is just too hard a thing to break and you know after one weekend that the drama is not going to be worth it...

As far as a commitment to a team - yes in my world of being a parent that is an ironclad, non-negotiable commitment that you should fulfill no matter the response from the other party to the agreement. As the old saying goes - two wrongs do not equal a right. You should be teaching your child that she needs to do the right thing regardless of the actions of another. If the coach turns out to be a bad player - learn from it and help your daughter learn from it. As a parent with grown children I can tell you for a fact that the adversity that my kids faced and overcame (on their own, without our help) is much more significant in their development as adults than their successes.

So in short Defty, I would say that regardless of how your daughter is doing with her softball, you may need some work as a parent.

Just one old fart's opinion. Thanks.
xyzdude
 
Posts: 87
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 6:44 am

by Defty » Wed Oct 09, 2019 11:59 am

xyzdude wrote:To Defty and others... I am definitely an old and old school guy. I have more than a few years experience as both a father-coach and as a higher level type coach with no child on the team. I know many great coaches and instructors across the country! I have helped many, many young women with their college selection process and continue to do so (for no fee I might add). I continue to be involved in the sport in a volunteer and professional way but no longer as a coach. Two of my daughters played college level sports - my softball player attended a D1 school with a nice athletic and academic scholarship. I will also say that I am very lucky in that, my kid was going to go to college on my dime regardless of getting or not getting athletic money.

It is difficult to find a team that is a right fit for your child, but too many parents look for teams to fit their agenda not for the real needs of their daughter. The truth is that most parents are terrible at being objective about their daughter's skill level and tend to read in traits to them that sometimes just aren't there. As the child gets older, the over-involved parent seems to need to double down because now the whole recruiting thing comes into play. The parents create so much drama that many of their daughters eventually just leave the sport. You will say she just lost interest or wanted to focus on something else when in truth, you probably ruined it for her. Here's a fun thing to do --- go to a 12U or lower level 14U game and watch a team have their at-bat. Count the number of times each batter looks at her dad sitting in the stands after each swing. Those are likely girls playing the game to make dad happy - not because they love it. They need the immediate feedback from their dad. If I were a shrink, I'd tell you to just yell out to her from the stands - I love you honey even if you have a bad at-bat! By the way, these are often the players who get cut quickly if they make the jump to a highly competitive team who has a competent coach - that is just too hard a thing to break and you know after one weekend that the drama is not going to be worth it...

As far as a commitment to a team - yes in my world of being a parent that is an ironclad, non-negotiable commitment that you should fulfill no matter the response from the other party to the agreement. As the old saying goes - two wrongs do not equal a right. You should be teaching your child that she needs to do the right thing regardless of the actions of another. If the coach turns out to be a bad player - learn from it and help your daughter learn from it. As a parent with grown children I can tell you for a fact that the adversity that my kids faced and overcame (on their own, without our help) is much more significant in their development as adults than their successes.

So in short Defty, I would say that regardless of how your daughter is doing with her softball, you may need some work as a parent.

Just one old fart's opinion. Thanks.


I respect your opinion even though it does not line up with what I believe and I feel that the benefit of a discussions board is to be able to see multiple sides of an argument to help vet out good information. I get the issues that parents create with being over involved but don't feel that being under-involved is the solution. I treat all agreements/contract the same... it is void when one party breaches it. Although it is noble to say that you stick to your commitments, I don't believe you should do this at any cost. How then do you hold the coaches that are breaching the contracts accountable. I guess you don't need to when all they do is get pushed out of their organization and join right up with another one that will give them a shot.

I also respect that you feel I need work as a parent, but you must know that it is impossible for me to take advice from someone that I believe is so very wrong. You believe that it is our most important role to teach our kids to be good people. I believe it is equally important to teach them that people should be good to them.

I would say that regardless of how your daughters are doing in life, you could use some work at showing them the difference between right and wrong.
Defty
Premium Member
Premium Member
 
Posts: 78
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:59 pm

by notthisagain » Wed Oct 09, 2019 12:01 pm

Xyzdude did you always coach your daughters?
notthisagain
 
Posts: 137
Joined: Thu Jul 25, 2019 7:07 am

by notthisagain » Wed Oct 09, 2019 12:03 pm

notthisagain wrote:Xyzdude did you always coach your daughters?


At what age, if at all, were they coached by someone other than yourself?
notthisagain
 
Posts: 137
Joined: Thu Jul 25, 2019 7:07 am

by xyzdude » Wed Oct 09, 2019 1:09 pm

[quoteYou believe that it is our most important role to teach our kids to be good people. I believe it is equally important to teach them that people should be good to them][/quote]

Defty, in addition to some parenting help, you may need a brush up on contract law. Just saying. I totally understand that you do not agree with me - it is against your nature, I get that and that is the problem. Good luck to you and to your daughter and I hope that when she is on her own she is prepared with life's little bumps and twists after a childhood where you were always in front of her smoothing the road.

[quote
At what age, if at all, were they coached by someone other than yourself?][/quote]

I coached my daughter up to 14U on a local town type travel team. At second year 12U we realized that we had some talent and entered exclusively "A" type tournaments to compete against club teams. This was really a local team with a core group that we had together starting at 10U. These were basically a group of athletes who played softball together and grew to love the sport (they all played multiple sports). We won our fair share of games and tournaments, but we always entered harder and harder tournaments to try and keep our winning record below 60% as we just felt there was more to learn by playing teams better than us. We also never had any pitching at all. Not one of our players pitched even in high school. About half way through the final 14U season, I announced that we would not be continuing the team and I helped each of the girls including my daughter find good club teams to continue to play at a higher level with a team that could help them with college recruiting. Of that core group at 14U, seven of the twelve eventually played ball at some level of college. My daughter moved to a well known in my area organization where she knew none of the other players but liked the coach, the schedule and the other players. She played on this team through the end of high school. I became my daughter's driver and fan and spent a blissful year on the sidelines. The head coach asked me to help and the next year I became an assistant coach. Just before my daughter's senior year, the head coach retired and asked me to take over the team. I coached the team for one year with my daughter on the team (she was already committed) and then for five more years.

One of the reasons that I wanted to coach after my daughter went to college was to help the players with their college path and to not make some of the mistakes that we made with our daughter. My daughter played four years of college ball, graduated in four years with a double major with honors. She learned to be a tiger in life because we did not smooth her path for her and we certainly let her fight her own battles - and she had more than a few. She went into college as a fairly timid, fly under the radar type of kid and graduated a confident, strong, take no shit from anyone woman. She has been very successful in anything she has done since and is the type of person that anyone would want as a role model for their child. She has moved beyond softball and has taken up tennis and golf. In another year, I'll be lucky to take a set from her.
xyzdude
 
Posts: 87
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 6:44 am

by notthisagain » Wed Oct 09, 2019 1:49 pm

Xyzdude. Your experience starting out with your daughter's was not to go trust some random coach who you may not have known for the first three or four years of their softball development. You also commented that sometimes parents have their own agenda but do not want to do what's best for their kid. As a father coach did you decide when you had started coaching that you were going to make decisions for other parents? Your decision was to coach your own daughter. In a small town that may been necessary? Applaud that. While you have gained experience staying in softball that's great. But really in those first primary years you were
"both the father and coach".
Doesn't say anything for how you would handle putting your kid into the hands of another. Which is kinda the base debate looks like. I interpret your story as listen to your parents. Because your parent is the coach it's the same category.
notthisagain
 
Posts: 137
Joined: Thu Jul 25, 2019 7:07 am

by eclipse09 » Wed Oct 09, 2019 2:02 pm

xyzdude wrote:To Defty and others... I am definitely an old and old school guy. I have more than a few years experience as both a father-coach and as a higher level type coach with no child on the team. I know many great coaches and instructors across the country! I have helped many, many young women with their college selection process and continue to do so (for no fee I might add). I continue to be involved in the sport in a volunteer and professional way but no longer as a coach. Two of my daughters played college level sports - my softball player attended a D1 school with a nice athletic and academic scholarship. I will also say that I am very lucky in that, my kid was going to go to college on my dime regardless of getting or not getting athletic money.

It is difficult to find a team that is a right fit for your child, but too many parents look for teams to fit their agenda not for the real needs of their daughter. The truth is that most parents are terrible at being objective about their daughter's skill level and tend to read in traits to them that sometimes just aren't there. As the child gets older, the over-involved parent seems to need to double down because now the whole recruiting thing comes into play. The parents create so much drama that many of their daughters eventually just leave the sport. You will say she just lost interest or wanted to focus on something else when in truth, you probably ruined it for her. Here's a fun thing to do --- go to a 12U or lower level 14U game and watch a team have their at-bat. Count the number of times each batter looks at her dad sitting in the stands after each swing. Those are likely girls playing the game to make dad happy - not because they love it. They need the immediate feedback from their dad. If I were a shrink, I'd tell you to just yell out to her from the stands - I love you honey even if you have a bad at-bat! By the way, these are often the players who get cut quickly if they make the jump to a highly competitive team who has a competent coach - that is just too hard a thing to break and you know after one weekend that the drama is not going to be worth it...

As far as a commitment to a team - yes in my world of being a parent that is an ironclad, non-negotiable commitment that you should fulfill no matter the response from the other party to the agreement. As the old saying goes - two wrongs do not equal a right. You should be teaching your child that she needs to do the right thing regardless of the actions of another. If the coach turns out to be a bad player - learn from it and help your daughter learn from it. As a parent with grown children I can tell you for a fact that the adversity that my kids faced and overcame (on their own, without our help) is much more significant in their development as adults than their successes.

So in short Defty, I would say that regardless of how your daughter is doing with her softball, you may need some work as a parent.

Just one old fart's opinion. Thanks.


Very good feedback xyz. Your insight, knowledge and experience go a long way in helping people decide how they want to approach travel ball. Luckily my time as a parent of a travel ball kid is ending (parent of a college playing softball player continues tho). I don't miss those crazy parents. The good news is there are much better well informed parents then there are ignorant ones. :)
User avatar
eclipse09
Premium Member
Premium Member
 
Posts: 473
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2012 9:04 am

by SDTitans » Wed Oct 09, 2019 6:15 pm

No matter how well informed parents are.. they will always fall for the lines..
your daughter is the best, she will get all the play time she can handle.
If you don't play for us, you will not get a scholarship..
We are here to develop(aka.. we want good players now, and all the wins we can squeeze out of them, then cast them aside for the new improved kid)
Come play for us.. we get scholarships.. we know all the coaches..

list goes on and on and on.. until the parents see it and go to leave, then the coach screams.. wheres your loyalty.. all the while the coach is always .. searching for someone to replace you..

sincerely
The used car salesman coach....

But parents are just as bad, always shopping their kid around like they are a prized possession.. always searching for that shinny trophy.. rather have their kid sit on the bench of a great team and brag about it, then her out there in the dirt working hard and earning everything.. etc etc
SDTitans
Premium Member
Premium Member
 
Posts: 935
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2011 9:50 am

PreviousNext

Return to Fastpitch Discussions