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A note to pitchers parents

What's on your mind?

by xyzdude » Wed Jul 07, 2021 8:11 am

I agree with your comment regarding the starter/closer. I still believe that each team needs to carry 8 pitchers into a tournament and no starting pitcher should have to pitch in multiple games during the tournament. LL games go 6 innings but have kids on weekly pitch limits. Pitchers' parents could force SB to make that change for their own DDs' longterm health. They won't.....unless influenced by pitching coaches and managers.


Interesting point of view. I am not qualified to discuss the mechanical differences between pitching of a baseball and pitching of a softball. If an expert, like Dr. Andrews ever did publish an article that said there is no difference between softball pitching and baseball pitching for developing arms, the entire softball industry would need to change. The current situation, with teams having one or two primary pitchers and perhaps another emergency pitcher, especially at the younger ages, may be a strong factor in holding the sport back. Here's why: when a young player moves to a "travel" team, she often ends up playing the position where she can earn the most playing time on that particular team. So an 11 year old who can play multiple position including pitcher will likely drop pitching if she is not one of the top two pitchers on that team. This process actually lessens the pool of pitchers being trained and getting experience for the sport. When you restrict the pool of participants in arguably the most important position on the field, and do this before the players have reached their physical maturity, you hurt the sport. We don't do this with the boys. It is quite common for baseball players to play a position and also pitch. Part of this is because each team needs to have 6 or more pitchers on the roster in order to play a few games each week.

For some reason, softball seems always to be in a rush to push the girls into a single position and the sport seems to go through a weaning process much too early. Softball is not generally kind to late bloomers. We need more pitching and more pitchers, not less.

Just my thoughts.
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by Blind Assassin » Wed Jul 07, 2021 10:27 am

xyzdude wrote:
I agree with your comment regarding the starter/closer. I still believe that each team needs to carry 8 pitchers into a tournament and no starting pitcher should have to pitch in multiple games during the tournament. LL games go 6 innings but have kids on weekly pitch limits. Pitchers' parents could force SB to make that change for their own DDs' longterm health. They won't.....unless influenced by pitching coaches and managers.


Interesting point of view. I am not qualified to discuss the mechanical differences between pitching of a baseball and pitching of a softball. If an expert, like Dr. Andrews ever did publish an article that said there is no difference between softball pitching and baseball pitching for developing arms, the entire softball industry would need to change. The current situation, with teams having one or two primary pitchers and perhaps another emergency pitcher, especially at the younger ages, may be a strong factor in holding the sport back. Here's why: when a young player moves to a "travel" team, she often ends up playing the position where she can earn the most playing time on that particular team. So an 11 year old who can play multiple position including pitcher will likely drop pitching if she is not one of the top two pitchers on that team. This process actually lessens the pool of pitchers being trained and getting experience for the sport. When you restrict the pool of participants in arguably the most important position on the field, and do this before the players have reached their physical maturity, you hurt the sport. We don't do this with the boys. It is quite common for baseball players to play a position and also pitch. Part of this is because each team needs to have 6 or more pitchers on the roster in order to play a few games each week.

For some reason, softball seems always to be in a rush to push the girls into a single position and the sport seems to go through a weaning process much too early. Softball is not generally kind to late bloomers. We need more pitching and more pitchers, not less.

Just my thoughts.


https://www.andrewssportsmedicine.com/for-patients/injury-prevention/softball-injuries-prevention

The vast majority of egomaniacal managers and pitchers' parents don't listen to the foremost expert on pitching injuries.
"I don't look for trouble....trouble looks for me." - Five Finger Death Punch
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by eclipse09 » Wed Jul 07, 2021 11:47 am

Blind Assassin wrote:
xyzdude wrote:
I agree with your comment regarding the starter/closer. I still believe that each team needs to carry 8 pitchers into a tournament and no starting pitcher should have to pitch in multiple games during the tournament. LL games go 6 innings but have kids on weekly pitch limits. Pitchers' parents could force SB to make that change for their own DDs' longterm health. They won't.....unless influenced by pitching coaches and managers.


Interesting point of view. I am not qualified to discuss the mechanical differences between pitching of a baseball and pitching of a softball. If an expert, like Dr. Andrews ever did publish an article that said there is no difference between softball pitching and baseball pitching for developing arms, the entire softball industry would need to change. The current situation, with teams having one or two primary pitchers and perhaps another emergency pitcher, especially at the younger ages, may be a strong factor in holding the sport back. Here's why: when a young player moves to a "travel" team, she often ends up playing the position where she can earn the most playing time on that particular team. So an 11 year old who can play multiple position including pitcher will likely drop pitching if she is not one of the top two pitchers on that team. This process actually lessens the pool of pitchers being trained and getting experience for the sport. When you restrict the pool of participants in arguably the most important position on the field, and do this before the players have reached their physical maturity, you hurt the sport. We don't do this with the boys. It is quite common for baseball players to play a position and also pitch. Part of this is because each team needs to have 6 or more pitchers on the roster in order to play a few games each week.

For some reason, softball seems always to be in a rush to push the girls into a single position and the sport seems to go through a weaning process much too early. Softball is not generally kind to late bloomers. We need more pitching and more pitchers, not less.

Just my thoughts.


https://www.andrewssportsmedicine.com/for-patients/injury-prevention/softball-injuries-prevention

The vast majority of egomaniacal managers and pitchers' parents don't listen to the foremost expert on pitching injuries.


Facts!! (taken from my kids vocab)
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by curveballerguy124 » Wed Jul 07, 2021 12:46 pm

eclipse09 wrote:
Blind Assassin wrote:
xyzdude wrote:
I agree with your comment regarding the starter/closer. I still believe that each team needs to carry 8 pitchers into a tournament and no starting pitcher should have to pitch in multiple games during the tournament. LL games go 6 innings but have kids on weekly pitch limits. Pitchers' parents could force SB to make that change for their own DDs' longterm health. They won't.....unless influenced by pitching coaches and managers.


Interesting point of view. I am not qualified to discuss the mechanical differences between pitching of a baseball and pitching of a softball. If an expert, like Dr. Andrews ever did publish an article that said there is no difference between softball pitching and baseball pitching for developing arms, the entire softball industry would need to change. The current situation, with teams having one or two primary pitchers and perhaps another emergency pitcher, especially at the younger ages, may be a strong factor in holding the sport back. Here's why: when a young player moves to a "travel" team, she often ends up playing the position where she can earn the most playing time on that particular team. So an 11 year old who can play multiple position including pitcher will likely drop pitching if she is not one of the top two pitchers on that team. This process actually lessens the pool of pitchers being trained and getting experience for the sport. When you restrict the pool of participants in arguably the most important position on the field, and do this before the players have reached their physical maturity, you hurt the sport. We don't do this with the boys. It is quite common for baseball players to play a position and also pitch. Part of this is because each team needs to have 6 or more pitchers on the roster in order to play a few games each week.

For some reason, softball seems always to be in a rush to push the girls into a single position and the sport seems to go through a weaning process much too early. Softball is not generally kind to late bloomers. We need more pitching and more pitchers, not less.

Just my thoughts.


https://www.andrewssportsmedicine.com/for-patients/injury-prevention/softball-injuries-prevention

The vast majority of egomaniacal managers and pitchers' parents don't listen to the foremost expert on pitching injuries.


Facts!! (taken from my kids vocab)


I agree to a certain extent,but even in the Doc's own words " unlike baseball injuries, most softball overuse injuries do not require surgery" I believe that to be true and the reason is its not as violent a motion as pitching overhand. Now hear me out, I am someone who has done both....I pitched baseball in a men's league for a while and when I was done throwing for a few innings my arm felt like it wanted to fall off. It ached from my shoulder to my finger tips for days after, hell I remember my arm going numb after a hard thrown fastball one day. Now mind you I was only pitching a few innings at that time!!!

Then came fastpitch playing with my uncles and cousins where I learned to pitch it seemed like every guy on the team could pitch a softball because they all goofed around with throwing underhand. Once I started pitching I was hooked I threw everyday sometime hundreds of balls until I was good enough to pitch in games. There were times I would throw 7 games in a weekend sure my arm was wrecked after and fatigued but it never hurt anything like pitching baseball did. To this day I can still throw pretty hard overhand but it hurts like hell, whereas when I throw underhand it just feels easy and smooth with almost no effort at all.

I see your points of view and I agree to some extent but I will never agree that throwing underhand is as damaging to the body as pitching overhand. I for one am glad I discovered fastpitch pitching because it allows me to still be on the mound playing a stick and ball sport well past my prime. The best part is I get to teach these young athletes why pitching underhand is so damn fun.......
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by Blind Assassin » Wed Jul 07, 2021 12:56 pm

curveballerguy124 wrote:
eclipse09 wrote:
Blind Assassin wrote:
xyzdude wrote:
I agree with your comment regarding the starter/closer. I still believe that each team needs to carry 8 pitchers into a tournament and no starting pitcher should have to pitch in multiple games during the tournament. LL games go 6 innings but have kids on weekly pitch limits. Pitchers' parents could force SB to make that change for their own DDs' longterm health. They won't.....unless influenced by pitching coaches and managers.


Interesting point of view. I am not qualified to discuss the mechanical differences between pitching of a baseball and pitching of a softball. If an expert, like Dr. Andrews ever did publish an article that said there is no difference between softball pitching and baseball pitching for developing arms, the entire softball industry would need to change. The current situation, with teams having one or two primary pitchers and perhaps another emergency pitcher, especially at the younger ages, may be a strong factor in holding the sport back. Here's why: when a young player moves to a "travel" team, she often ends up playing the position where she can earn the most playing time on that particular team. So an 11 year old who can play multiple position including pitcher will likely drop pitching if she is not one of the top two pitchers on that team. This process actually lessens the pool of pitchers being trained and getting experience for the sport. When you restrict the pool of participants in arguably the most important position on the field, and do this before the players have reached their physical maturity, you hurt the sport. We don't do this with the boys. It is quite common for baseball players to play a position and also pitch. Part of this is because each team needs to have 6 or more pitchers on the roster in order to play a few games each week.

For some reason, softball seems always to be in a rush to push the girls into a single position and the sport seems to go through a weaning process much too early. Softball is not generally kind to late bloomers. We need more pitching and more pitchers, not less.

Just my thoughts.


https://www.andrewssportsmedicine.com/for-patients/injury-prevention/softball-injuries-prevention

The vast majority of egomaniacal managers and pitchers' parents don't listen to the foremost expert on pitching injuries.


Facts!! (taken from my kids vocab)


I agree to a certain extent,but even in the Doc's own words " unlike baseball injuries, most softball overuse injuries do not require surgery" I believe that to be true and the reason is its not as violent a motion as pitching overhand. Now hear me out, I am someone who has done both....I pitched baseball in a men's league for a while and when I was done throwing for a few innings my arm felt like it wanted to fall off. It ached from my shoulder to my finger tips for days after, hell I remember my arm going numb after a hard thrown fastball one day. Now mind you I was only pitching a few innings at that time!!!

Then came fastpitch playing with my uncles and cousins where I learned to pitch it seemed like every guy on the team could pitch a softball because they all goofed around with throwing underhand. Once I started pitching I was hooked I threw everyday sometime hundreds of balls until I was good enough to pitch in games. There were times I would throw 7 games in a weekend sure my arm was wrecked after and fatigued but it never hurt anything like pitching baseball did. To this day I can still throw pretty hard overhand but it hurts like hell, whereas when I throw underhand it just feels easy and smooth with almost no effort at all.

I see your points of view and I agree to some extent but I will never agree that throwing underhand is as damaging to the body as pitching overhand. I for one am glad I discovered fastpitch pitching because it allows me to still be on the mound playing a stick and ball sport well past my prime. The best part is I get to teach these young athletes why pitching underhand is so damn fun.......


I appreciate your insight and recognize that you are a man with different physiology than a woman. I note that Dr. Andrews agrees with some of your points and allows for more frequent pitching, to an extent, at older ages. My experience is that my DD's pitching did result in shoulder surgery. I had taken advice from some old sages on the field and on this board....to her detriment. I saw the same thing happen to a kid that won ASA Nationals at 10, 12, and 14 at a #1 pitcher....and she wasn't able to pitch in HS or college because of overuse.

I think your comments end up providing those egomaniacal managers and pitchers' parents with cover, a firewall from criticism, when they ignore Dr. Andrew's advice. Being less harmful doesn't justify what they are doing to these kids.
"I don't look for trouble....trouble looks for me." - Five Finger Death Punch
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by xyzdude » Thu Jul 08, 2021 6:23 am

https://www.andrewssportsmedicine.com/for-patients/injury-prevention/softball-injuries-prevention

The vast majority of egomaniacal managers and pitchers' parents don't listen to the foremost expert on pitching injuries.


That is a pretty common sense approach to pitching but it is still a long way from the conclusions published for baseball. Overuse is a problem these days for just about every sport - and is a strong argument for athletic development rather than sport specific development for youth athletes. Cross training, playing multiple sports, taking time off, eating well, getting enough sleep, and focusing on process rather than performance and victories is surely the key to a healthy child and a life long athlete.

The blame for most of this needs to be placed on the parents. After all, it is their job to protect their child. Have you ever heard of a pitcher's parent looking for a team where they will get less pitching time?
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by karangates12 » Thu Sep 30, 2021 7:16 am

I agree overuse can be an issue however, pitching with proper mechanics lessens the likelihood of overuse injuries at last n my opinion. mx player for pc
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Last edited by karangates12 on Sun Dec 05, 2021 4:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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by Schmick » Mon Nov 15, 2021 6:07 pm

Not seen any softball pitchers getting Tommy John Surgery
But I can't remember the last time I saw a baseball pitcher tear an ACL or tweak an ankle and be done for a few months.

Most of the good teams have 3 or 4 pitchers, 5 pitchers means girls are sitting way too much. Last year one of the teams in the org had 7 pitchers but 3 or 4 never did anything but warm up and 5 of the 7 were POs.
The other 2 teams in the age group had 4 pitchers each and that seemed to be a great rotation number til 2 of the girls left one team and they went in to all of the summer tournaments with just 2 pitchers. More than 3 games in a day and you will need more than 2 pitchers
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