Clever Trick Play or Sleazy?

[coolstuff]

This is a "trick" play tried against us and I'll tell you off the bat I feel it has no place in the game.

Opposing team is at bat. Runners on first and second. The opposing coach signaled to the batter to go to first base after the third ball was called, which she did. The plate ump immediately holds up three fingers to signal there are only three balls called. I'm keeping the scorebook, and I'm calling out the same thing. Meanwhile the runners advance to the next base, BUT - the runner on second jogs halfway to third, stops, then proceeds to third. The batter is called back to the plate by the plate ump. Then the opposing coach claims that the runners on 1st and 2nd were stealing and should advance. He admitted it was a called play.

We first protest that the runner on second hesitated and so should be called out. The umpires confer. They can't decide what to do, so they call for the state association director who is present. As we wait for her to arrive, the base ump walks over to our dugout and says that if the opposing coach pulls that in nationals (this is an NSA tournament), the coach will probably be thrown out.

The state director shows up and confers with the coaches and umps. Her decision is that the runner on second is out because she hesitated, and the runner on first can advance to second (which sounds like a compromise decision to me). Then she tells the opposing coach that if he tries to pull this at the state tournament, she'll throw him out. While this conversation is going on, the asst. coach on 1st base tells me that they've been using this play all year. I politely keep my opinion to myself.

So, you sages of softball - what are your opinions?

[3Bsnag]

We've had this same story come up several times on HB. Many teams use it, most people say that the defense should be awake enough to catch it, including the umpires on the board.

I think more teams are becoming aware of this because it's being used more. Not saying they will always catch it, but its gaining in popularity.

[DonnieS]

>> So, you sages of softball - what are your opinions? <<

First, where are you playing?
Second, this has been done for a long time - its called the 'fake walk'
Third, your kids really need to keep track of the count.

Edited to add: What would be sleazy about this - your kids didnt know the count, thats just being mentally lazy, on your teams part.

[NoNothin]

Its no different than a batter swinging at a dropped 2nd strike to move the runners or the old hidden ball trick in baseball.....if your girls are not paying attention and the other team knows a way to distract them, I say more power to them. Over the years I have learned that being schooled/embarrassed by other teams is the best way to anchor that lesson into my players heads. Usually it only happens once and then they know it and sometimes use it. JMHWO

NoNo

[Demonboy]

I used to use that play in 8U. By 10's the opponents can count to 4 so it doesn't work anymore.

[melsdad]

Your coaches should know the count and played it like a steel, if the pitcher didn't have the ball I dont think there was a circle violation either.

[Martin]

Lots of life lessons here.

1. This play is a tacit admission by your opponent that he cannot move runners using the traditional methods of putting a ball in play, bunting, drawing a walk, or a straight up steal. I'm guessing they were near the bottom of the order and this stunt certainly wasn't pulled with their cleanup hitter at the plate. His only resort is to take the rather large risk by running a trick play. Well done.

2. Your players should learn that even though your opponent is outmatched they will still try to win the game. Your players should learn all of these gimmicks and be taught how to defend them. The only thing that is more enjoyable than burning a team with a trick play is to torch them as they try to run one against you.

(actually, there are a great many things more enjoyable than successfully running a trick play, like thoroughly drubbing your opponent with superior skills in the field, at the plate and on the bases, but stopping a trick play is still pretty awesome)

3. Despite the fact it was your opponent who planned, practiced and called this trick play, they were the ones who bungled it, resulting in an out and one less base runner. This was a potentially huge mistake that could cost a team a close game. Sometimes, a coach can "coach himself out of a game."

[wadeintothem]

ASA for this play, it is real simple... even in Nationals.

Stolen base for R1 and R2.
Batter returned to bat, its only ball 3.

I'm not the 10th man on defense.

NSA... dunno. But the moral of the story in ASA is be awake on defense... if this works on you, you probably deserve it.

[Martin]

I'm still trying to understand why the batter is not compelled to get in the box in the required amount of time or suffer a penalty.

The defense makes a mental mistake and the prevailing attitude is that they deserve what they get. But this trick play is based on the notion that the batter also made a mental mistake (supposedly thinking it was Ball 4 when it was not) and yet she is allowed additional time to get into the box because of this "mistake." This seems inconsistent to me.

[wadeintothem]

We're not asking a lot.

We're asking that the defensive coach be able count to 4.

Now, we dont throw him to the wolves and expect him to do this all by himself. If he forgets along the way, all he needs to do is ask, we'll tell him. No matter how many times he asks along the way to that magic number, 4, we'll hook him up.

On top of that, we'll also go ahead toss a few unsolicited reminders along the way, especially if something happens that we recognize could have broken his concentration on this trek to the number 4... like say a foul ball. Those can disturb that count to 4. If its a full count, we'll announce it loudly for him.

But wait, there is more.

In the rules, he gets someone to sit there whose entire existence is to count for him and write it in a book. That person can also help him.

In return, all that is asked is that he make it all the way to the number 4.


Thats not asking a lot, even of a coach.