disqualified at 14U Western Nats from winners bracket.

[Dreamseam]

Crunch and LadyHawks..

Playing against each other in winners bracket. Last night.
Both teams disqualified this morning.
Heard there was a big brawl and police were called.
Whats the scoop?

[thatguy]

Crunch and LadyHawks..

Playing against each other in winners bracket. Last night.
Both teams disqualified this morning.
Heard there was a big brawl and police were called.
Whats the scoop?

Wow! If this was in fact the case...this is pretty sad. I'll go out on a limb and say that the alleged brawl did not start with the 13-14yr old kids on the field, which makes it that much worse, because the the real victims are the girls. I'm not that surprised though, but interesting that we don't hear this more as unfortunate as it is. It's great to hear these two teams represent so cal so well. Aside from the forfeit (which sucks for these girls), how have teams in similar situations generally been dealt with? Are there any long term consequences? Are teams or coaches banned from future ASA tournaments? This is embarrassing!

[Dreamseam]

It is true.
Witnessed both teams arrive to play this morning and then leave in tears with out playing their games.
Don't know the whole story though.
Sad.

[eagles2010]

Do not know the full details, but believe the teams were not disqualified due to the "brawl" but because they no longer had any coaches left on their rosters left to coach after ASA took action against the adults involved.

From what I understand, if there had been another coach on the roster who had not been at the game (for whatever reason). That coach would have been allowed to coach and the teams would not have had to forfeit.

Typically the coaches of teams who forfeit games during "championship play" are suspended for 1 year. Not sure what was done here, but the rumors were flying throughout the complex today.

It is ashame that it came down to this, both teams were playing very well.

[Verbi]

A few facts from someone who was actually there...

1. Ladyhawks won 6-0 in a very intense game sending Crunch to the loser's bracket. The score was 6-0 but both teams were strong and had an equal amount of hits.

2. There was no brawl...anybody who says otherwise is lying, grossly mistaken, and/or requires a great deal of drama in their life. There were some accusations from a couple of Crunch coaches AFTER both teams shook hands which lead to a lot of shouting, one Crunch parent running onto the field, and the general disorder of trying to get people in their dugouts while quieting down the stands.

3. IMHO the parent running onto the field is ultimately what caused the tournament lives of both teams to end prematurely. The act of running onto a field yelling "who wants some?" only helped to anger the parents in the stands, keep coaches on the field, and ultimately resulted in this guy flinching at an umpire when he accidentally bumped into him.

4. Sending both teams home was a very simple decision for tournament organizers - it sends an example to the other teams in the tournament, the umpires are emboldened to keep order, and you don't have to care about these teams running into each other anywhere on your fields. One particularly emotional tournament person only made matters worse by alleging there was a bad past between both teams and was insistent that both teams should be sent home immediately.
That overly emotional person's name can be found at the link below. http://qp.clovisusd.k12.ca.us/QuickPlace/commrec/Main.nsf/h_Toc/0E44A48988BF1A54882574440005ECB1/?OpenDocument

[Side Note: The Winner's bracket contains lots of mistakes too...guess I'm not surprised she had that one wrong too.]

5. The first and only warning was issued towards the LH dugout at or around the 6th inning.

6. Crunch coaches were persistently complaining about the LH pitcher's motion being too fast - the umpires heard the complaints several times but did not see a need to take action.

7. Both teams were sent home this morning after official statements were taken and separate hearings were held to decide if they could continue in the tournament...the funny thing about the hearings is that a parent from Cal Starz asked, "what are you guys doing here? We were informed yesterday that both teams were suspended from the tournament as of last night."

----------------------------
That pretty much covers the story but I'm sure some soap opera fan out there will uncover a salacious detail I missed and try to blow this out of proportion; to that person I say "please get a life" .

Bottom line - this was a raw deal for all parties involved .

[wadeintothem]

I was not on the field, obviously I am fully aware of it and I do not think it is appropriate for me to go into it... that said...

There have been a few occasions in my umpiring career when I wonder how a parent could actually justify certain types of behavior while looking through DD's teary eyes trying to explain away what you've done and how you behaved... what lengths you can go to to shift blame... to provide some solace to yourself; some ability to shift blame, knowing full well it was you that dumped all of their hard work into the septic tank.. not to mention money, time, heart, soul, and blood...

And this is one of those times.

If you can justify that situation in anyway... please, do this sport a favor and go away forever. Save your DD further embarrassment of you. Just throw in the towel. The game is honestly better without you ever being involved.

[bpowell]

Congrats to the Crunch! You got exactly what you deserved! Your team uses every dirty trick in the book to win at all costs.

Do all of the softball community a favor an crawl under a rock and never come out.

LH suprised you were invovled, but from experience Crunch's "ghetto" parents and coaches push people to the edge. Hope you guys recover, you are a good team.

Oh, and to save all the Crunch thugs from calling me out, I can be found at football practice every Thursday in Mo Val. PM me if you want directions!

[DODGERFAN]

Congrats to the Crunch! You got exactly what you deserved! Your team uses every dirty trick in the book to win at all costs.

Do all of the softball community a favor an crawl under a rock and never come out.

LH suprised you were invovled, but from experience Crunch's "ghetto" parents and coaches push people to the edge. Hope you guys recover, you are a good team.

Oh, and to save all the Crunch thugs from calling me out, I can be found at football practice every Thursday in Mo Val. PM me if you want directions!

I DONT KNOW WE PLAYED FOR CRUNCH LAST SEASON AND THEY ARE GREAT COACHES AND NOTHING GHETTO ABOUT THEM!!!!!!

GOOD LUCK TO JUNIOR AND HIS TEAM!!!!!!!!

[DDG]

Long time reader, first time posting. What I saw Friday night, and Saturday morning motivated me to try to get the accurate info out there.

Additional Info – yes I was there, and spoke with ASA officials on the appeal board Saturday morning.

Both teams were talking trash during the game. Both teams contributed equally to the end result.

LH coaches were making comments directly to other team’s players (I have seen them do this before. They “pump up” their team by putting down the opposing teams players – shouting so all can hear). Real men, talking trash to 14 year old girls.

Crunch parents were getting very worked up also. Making comments that most would consider offensive.

It was a very heated environment for most of the game. I would have hoped that ASA would have taken some kind of action even if the confrontation at the end of the game did not take place. I did not see the warning in the 6th inning. However, it was too late by then. ASA/umpires should have taken control of the coaches and parents before that time. By delaying action, both sides were too heated for it to end properly.

After the game, both sides were screaming and dropping “f-bombs” everywhere. Clearly out of control. No punches were thrown. However, there were adults from both sides offering invitations to fight, on the field, or in the parking lot.

All coaches involved were suspended effective Friday night. ASA rules allow for an appeal in cases of suspension. That was the meeting Saturday morning (due process). The teams were not suspended. Had either team had an ASA certified coach on their roster that was not suspended, they could have played. As neither team had a non suspended coach remaining on their roster, they could not play.

Overall, this was a case where the coaches and parents put themselves before the kids that were out there working hard. I would be interested in knowing how the coaches justified their actions to their players.

FYI – It was not a raw deal for all parties involved, only for the girls.

[Verbi]

I appreciate your magnanimous attempt to save us from falsehoods by sharing your “accurate” information. Surely you left no stone uncovered in your valiant pursuit of truth and yet you or your sources failed to discover several inaccuracies:

1. If the LH coaches make a habit of talking trash to 14 year-old girls (and as you claim did so during this game) why was only one coach singled out? The Crunch coaches had no problems shaking hands and acting sportsmanlike with the other coaches; I don’t think I could be so forgiving immediately following a game in which my daughter endured the verbal attacks of an entire coaching staff.

2. What you saw (if you actually did see and hear it) was called cheering. It’s a motivational tactic used in softball to generate momentum and distract your opponents. I’ll grant you the dugout and stands were extremely loud and probably distracted the defensive players (see explanation above) but I can assure you nobody was standing in the middle of the crowd reciting yo momma jokes and trying to put the other team down. When the girls scream “WE NEED A HIT…” they’re not issuing a call to violence – they’re just trying to fire up the girl at the plate.

3. Both sides were so out of control that ABSOLUTELY NO PUNCHES WERE THROWN AND THE OPPOSING COACHES NEVER MADE CONTACT WITH EACH OTHER. Fortunately a pair of older gentlemen (umpires) were able to restore order in near-riot conditions by issuing the “GET BACK IN YOUR DUGOUT” command…a real lifesaver. Did some parents try and look tough in the parking lot after the game? Yes. Did it really matter? No.

If you ask me the moms in the stands were more fierce than any of the guys on the field could ever be, once they saw an opposing parent run onto the field they thought their daughters were in harm’s way and had to be restrained from running onto the field.

4. Does it ever make sense for every coach to be suspended for the singular action(s) of a coach or parent before, during, or after a game? I’ve seen coaches get thrown out of games before but never witnessed two entire coaching staffs be suspended. Those who rely on mindless clichés like “takes two to tango” will believe they taught these teams a lesson by overreacting to a bad situation. You’re right! The lesson learned is every team should deputize a few parents as coaches in case of emergency.

5. FYI – Everyone loses, not just the girls. The last time I checked this was a shared commitment between players, parents, and coaches. Families tend to vacation in places like Hawaii, Mexico, Disneyland, etc. I can’t recall the last time I’ve heard someone say “This summer I’d love to spend a week in Fresno or Midland instead of some boring place like Disneyworld”.

These 14 year-old girls didn’t drive themselves to Fresno, pay for their own hotel rooms, softball equipment, and countless other expenses (not to mention time) required of this game. The girls put in a great deal of sweat equity into this partnership and that’s why we’re so proud of them and frustrated with situations like this. It’s frustrating when self-righteous adults like to pretend they’re “all about the girls” when they’re really not…how else could you explain a week long tournament in which opening ceremonies occur on Monday and you don’t start playing any meaningful games until Thursday…. tell me how that’s “all about the girls”.

We all understand and abide by this arrangement because we love our girls and the sport they're participating in, don’t mock us with your silly notions of justice and truth.