SoCal ASA Meeting

[andy]

Sarge , good post. I think that the people who set up these meetings gear them more towards the new travel coaches and thus we get stuck with listening to a lot of stuff we know already. perhaps they should set up indoc meetings for newer coaches.

I would like to think if coaches go to these meetings and voice their frustration with ASA then maybe someone will actual year us or care.

The fact is the reason teams play ASA and Gold is basically three reasons.

1. All the top teams nationwide do.
2. College scouts attend qualifiers and nationals
3. Players have more opportunity to make Olympic teams as ASA is governing body and selects from that pool.

However, what they fail to be understanding is:

1. Top teams could play anywhere for any organization and really do not care who runs it as long as they listen and also try to keep costs down. No one is married to the idea you have to play ASA.

2. College coaches will show up any place the top teams play and also have no allegiance to what organization runs it. There are also plenty of showcases now and less need for having to be at Gold Nationals for just recruiting purposes.

3. Softball at the Olympics has been canceled at least for 2012 and because only a few select players ever have a shot at playing for he National teams, the issue is basically a mute point.

What ASA has been doing is raising the cost to play Gold times 4 in only two years. They have been tweaking the system to provide clear advantage to those areas who do not support Gold teams in the numbers we do or Texas , Florida and the West does because of their attitude that our teams will spend the money and do whatever it takes no matter what they change.

They do stupid an unnecessary changes such as holding the tournament bracket draw a week in advance with no one but local teams present. Taking away an enjoyable, time honored tradition done at the coaches meeting each Nationals. For no reason at all.

Changed the tournament format to two separate tournaments unlike no other national tournament and then do not flop teams that lose to the other side except once. Again , no other nationals does this. Now they removed return berths and seeding.

Take a good look at Sarge's numbers and facts. because it is obvious that ASA hasn't.
I would be real mad if I was a Florida or Georgia Gold team that now has to qualify against Texas teams instead of new England teams, or an Arizona team that used to stay at home for a Sector an dnow has to travel to Norcal and Seattle to qualify. etc.

[ssarge]

I would be real mad if I was a Florida or Georgia Gold team that now has to qualify against Texas teams instead of new England teams, or an Arizona team that used to stay at home for a Sector an dnow has to travel to Norcal and Seattle to qualify. etc.

This is a HUGE point.

Teams that are less well established have to qualify against the REALLY big boys. (I mean girls, I guess).

I think it is arguable that Arizona and Colorado were even more severely affected by this "realignment" than were even the California teams. ONE regional berth, in which all teams will be competing with a top-5 team (Hot Shots). Then Stockton and Seattle, competing against 100 or so California teams, and the Northwest.


Best,

Scott

[ssarge]

Take a good look at Sarge's numbers and facts. because it is obvious that ASA hasn't.

Andy knows this stuff far better than I do. But I am of the opinion that they HAVE looked at the numbers. I believe that pragmatism won out, and that ASA is most concerned with gaining mindshare (and teams) in regions of the country where they are not as dominant as in the West. In other words, where USSSA and NSA have a presence.

Of course, I could just be cynical.

Regards,

Scott

[MTR]

Take a good look at Sarge's numbers and facts. because it is obvious that ASA hasn't.

Andy knows this stuff far better than I do. But I am of the opinion that they HAVE looked at the numbers. I believe that pragmatism won out, and that ASA is most concerned with gaining mindshare (and teams) in regions of the country where they are not as dominant as in the West. In other words, where USSSA and NSA have a presence.

Scott, if I'm reading this post correctly, you are stating that ASA is doing business like a retailer trying to entice new customer through incentives and attention, correct?

While that is a cute marketing ploy, have you ever been in a bank/retailer that is giving away a gift or bonus ONLY to new customers and the 20-year loyal customer gets zip?

While I'm sure you believe 18U Gold may be the best customer, when it comes to ASA and U-trip and NSA, etc, the slow pitch game pays the bills.

Question for Sam, Andy, Scott or anyone. Do you believe there are teams that are basically 18U Gold in name only? If yes, could it be that their existence pretty much clogs up the field for the true 18U Gold teams?

Sort of reminds me of NCAA Div I football. There are so many true IAA teams that move up and play IA ball that are no better, or just barely better, than the top 20% of the IAA teams. They do it for one reason, money. They also do it for what is almost a guarantee for any team with 6 wins and that is a bowl game that nobody watches. However, as low on the chain as they may be, they still walk around thumping their chest declaring their superiority over all other divisions of football.

From what I have read on these boards the last couple of years, there have been a fair amount of new "gold" programs that may not really belong. Could it be that due to the larger amounts that SoCal or any other local ASA has to accommodate, it has taken away from the elite treatment once provided to that group of teams?

Maybe it's time to separate the cock from the bull and submit a code change which places a higher demand upon teams to be Gold above simple declaration and playing in particular tournaments. Just a thought.

[andy]

MTR you bring up excellent points with a lot of validity to them.


Be nice to see ASA discuss in some sort of open panel discussion instead of making up their minds behind closed doors.

[ssarge]

While I'm sure you believe 18U Gold may be the best customer, when it comes to ASA and U-trip and NSA, etc, the slow pitch game pays the bills.

I don't remotely believe that. SP is king. However, ASA's position in SP is also not going to be enhanced because of more Gold teams at Nationals from parts of the country where they have little presence. Two separate beasts.

Question for Sam, Andy, Scott or anyone. Do you believe there are teams that are basically 18U Gold in name only? If yes, could it be that their existence pretty much clogs up the field for the true 18U Gold teams?

Absolutely, just as there are 12A and 14A teams which are "A" in name only.

I don't see it as clogging the field, though. That's just competition at work. Hell, I think most people considered MY team to be that kind of team (Gold in name only) the first year of our existence. Maybe less so now that we qualified for Gold Nationals in our second year. Competition is king, and you won't last long as a Gold team if you don;t get players sign and win some qualifying games. So I believe it is absolutely self-policing.

Not sure it is any more prevalent in the West, either, so I don't know that it argues the point for the Territorial relaignment. Nor do I think it was a consideration of ASA when the decisions were made. As Andy indicates, though, we'll never know. Wasn't an open process. Or iof it was, I missed the memo.

While that is a cute marketing ploy, have you ever been in a bank/retailer that is giving away a gift or bonus ONLY to new customers and the 20-year loyal customer gets zip?

Sure. And I understand it, and will tolerate it - for a while. However, if they are taking interest OUT of my account to fund it, I wouldn't tolerate it for long.

But I take your point. ASA has every RIGHT to do whatever they want. That doesn't mean they have made a good decision, though, and I would maintain that they haven't.

Regards,

Scott

[MTR]

I don't remotely believe that. SP is king. However, ASA's position in SP is also not going to be enhanced because of more Gold teams at Nationals from parts of the country where they have little presence. Two separate beasts.

2007 Registration

SoCal Total teams - 10,728
JO - 6,137
Adult - 4,591

NorCal Total teams - 7,274
JO - 2,502
Adult - 4,772

CenCal Total teams - 3,900
JO - 2,717
Adult - 1,283

Greater San Joaquin Total teams - 1,695
JO - 499
Adult - 1,196

San Francisco Total teams - 618
JO - 27
Adult - 589

Don't have the 2007 national total handy, but at the end of 2006 there were 91K JO teams registered and 126K adult teams.

Adult teams include FP/MP which have some decent pockets of registrations, but not enough to make up that difference. And before you ask, the JO numbers are actually skewed as for every 10 individual registrations, 1 team is counted. Since there are not that many 10 player rosters, the JO team numbers are actually quite generous.

[ssarge]

MTR:

Very interesting numbers, thanks. Actually closer than I thought, though as you say, assigning one team per 10 participants skews the numbers.

And I suppose it is true that the opportunity for growth for ASA IS far greater on the adult side, where they DON'T dominate.

[Lost_D]

What I find most interesting is ASA's attempt to maintain dominance through lawmaking. As if the reason people are playing in other tournaments is because there aren't already enough ASA rules.

ASA is losing market share due to losing sight of what's important to the customers.
What's important to people who attend ASA events is playing softball.

These two scenarios are becoming the image of ASA all over the US :

if a spontaneous sandlot game broke out on a ballfield with 18 girls and no adults, the ASA would run in and say, you need to pay $500.00 to register the team for todays games, also you need to pay the umpires, and we need a donation to help our all volunteer organization. If you aren't willing to pay these new fees, then i'm sorry girls you can only play the game a week from thursday.

Why just yesterday, i watched an ASA league official run several families off the alleged ASA fields. Since when does public property become dominion of self-appointed boards? The community often pays for fields which are then unable to be used by softball playing tax payers? rheotorical question if i hit another nerve.

In many instances, competing organizations provide quality tournaments which are no hassle for the teams participating. This SERVICE is why more and more people are headed away from the safely regulated and hard to negotiate rules of ASA.

I will now lift my shirt so that you may flog my back for blaspheming the Godhead ASA which some feel no longer exists for players but merely for administrators.

Have a great year in 2008

[MTR]

Whatever stirs your grits, Lost_D, but I have a feeling you are making claims about a nationwide association based on what you see locally.

That is understandable, but doesn't mean it is accurate. And if I hit a nerve, I'm sure you will let me know