SoCal ASA Meeting

[Sam]

Feedback for SoCal ASA:

1) Change venue....HORRIBLE parking situation. 15 Minutes to find parking...at the hotel next door.....20 minutes to get out after paying $5.00 to park in a red zone.

2) Parking would have been fine if the age groups were staggered as they were in previous years.

3) Vendor area was claustrophobic.

4) A portion of the presentation was reserved for adult softball....Why?

5) The Gold meeting dragged on due to the GOBs whining about territory tournament directors alledged mistreatment of SoCal Gold teams. Should have been a one-on-one conversation between the whiners and the age director....nobody else in the room cared and it extended the meeting needlessly.

6) Breakfast was pretty good.

7) Get rid of the player agreements. Everybody knows they aren't worth the paper they are printed on and our packets could have their price reduced to $10 instead of $40 if we just didn't print the player agreements. The ONLY solid document we have is the ASA Championship Roster.

8) I know that these are all volunteers and they do their best...but if they don't get feedback, they will be doomed to make similar mistakes in the future.

[artomatic]

guess my rare footage of pictures in the other post were pretty true to life...
we got in and out of the parking lot pretty quickly...
but i agree w/sam, the "trade show" area was pretty cramped and claustrophobic...

[andy]

Sam
Sorry you were bored at the Gold meeting and don't care about issues that affect all of Socal. What is happening at Gold will soon trickle down to the other age groups. They took 4 potential berths from us when they did away with the returning berths and only gave us back 2. Territories are shutting out Cal teams and soon Cal teams will find themselves also shut out at other open qualifiers in other age groups. The TDs and commissioners in other areas are bending the rules on propose to limit California success and do not even try to hide it anymore at Gold because they know Socal ASA has not done anything. As a new commissioner with no experience ever at Gold Nationals, he needed to be informed that he needs to address these issues and come up to speed. The time that was wasted was explaining the qualifying process. Everyone already knows it or could read it for themselves. The Code discussions is not a waste of time. These issues are important and should be discussed. We register far more teams then any other area and should not be penalized for our past success.
The new age group person at Gold is new. It is important he understand the past two years Cal teams have been hosed at Gold Nationals despite surveys and despite protests. If and when you get there, you will then see what was being discussed. Again the point it to rally some support to do something about it. I would suggest that anyone who plans on continuing to coach a team from all of Socal start getting interested in what Code changes ASA are making that directly affect our area. This new alignment in Gold from sectors to territories and the previous split if the tournament format to two separate tournaments, is a direct indication they plan on making Nationals a East versus West final like LL instead of a final between the best teams. Once it is implemented in Gold, it will also trickle down the line.
If you did not want to listen and if contracts are not important, you could have not attended or walked out at anytime. But to those of us who care about Gold, those issues discussed are important and in fact are going to be addressed in further detail soon. If they are not important to you or others, then why register Gold at all?

[MTR]

4) A portion of the presentation was reserved for adult softball....Why?

Just a guess, but maybe because adult SP accounts for approximately 40% of the SoCal ASA registrations?

[andy]

We were not exempt from the returning 5 policy. What they did is take away the 4 automatic berths period. There are none , even if you win and have ten returning players. The returning berths are a reward for parents and teams and save money for both. They also took away seeding based on prior year finish.

[Sam]

Sam
Sorry you were bored at the Gold meeting and don't care about issues that affect all of Socal. What is happening at Gold will soon trickle down to the other age groups. They took 4 potential berths from us when they did away with the returning berths and only gave us back 2. Territories are shutting out Cal teams and soon Cal teams will find themselves also shut out at other open qualifiers in other age groups. The TDs and commissioners in other areas are bending the rules on propose to limit California success and do not even try to hide it anymore at Gold because they know Socal ASA has not done anything. As a new commissioner with no experience ever at Gold Nationals, he needed to be informed that he needs to address these issues and come up to speed. The time that was wasted was explaining the qualifying process. Everyone already knows it or could read it for themselves. The Code discussions is not a waste of time. These issues are important and should be discussed. We register far more teams then any other area and should not be penalized for our past success.
The new age group person at Gold is new. It is important he understand the past two years Cal teams have been hosed at Gold Nationals despite surveys and despite protests. If and when you get there, you will then see what was being discussed. Again the point it to rally some support to do something about it. I would suggest that anyone who plans on continuing to coach a team from all of Socal start getting interested in what Code changes ASA are making that directly affect our area. This new alignment in Gold from sectors to territories and the previous split if the tournament format to two separate tournaments, is a direct indication they plan on making Nationals a East versus West final like LL instead of a final between the best teams. Once it is implemented in Gold, it will also trickle down the line.
If you did not want to listen and if contracts are not important, you could have not attended or walked out at anytime. But to those of us who care about Gold, those issues discussed are important and in fact are going to be addressed in further detail soon. If they are not important to you or others, then why register Gold at all?

Andy,

Nobody said the discussion wasn't important. It wasn't the forum for the discussion. You guys can email the Gold coordinator with your issues. Do you think Monson didn't tell the coordinator the history of the position? I've known Steve for years (he and Carla were at the meeting) and I'm betting he briefed the guy pretty well.

I assume that you guys fired off letters to Steve last year and file formal complaints against the TDs and the situation should be fixed.

It sounded like whining to a lot of us who aren't going out of state to attempt to qualify. I understand that it may have been really important for you to air your displeasure, but I think it would have been more effective one on one with the coordinator.

[andy]

I disagree Sam
The meeting is one of the few times, you get all the Gold coaches in the same room. In fact the only time once a year .Perfect opportunity to inform everyone at the same time and also let the coordinator know. Those of us with concerns have been writing and petitioning for years to help improve Gold and fight off the constant changes they make to try and tweak what isn't broke.

The discussion on out of Territory (not out of state) qualifiers was because other commissioners are purposely making rules to suit their area teams and not follow code. You may have no interest and we certainly are not going out of territory to qualify but many in that room are and they want to know what is going on.

You are certainly welcome to your opinion but it had little to do about the GOBs as they typically qualify anyway and more to do with helping defend the interests of Socal ASA within the Gold division and helping maintain the integrity of the sport within the entire division. Ask Arizona, Georgia and Florida what they think of the new territories and ask the coaches what input they had to a system that now benefits the Mid West and North East. Ask any Gold coach Nationwide how these changes keep adding to the increased costs for parents to travel and play Gol qualfiers each year.

The meeting did not last as long as the other age groups and was shorter then the past ten years. No reason you had to listen or stay around, especially when you do not believe the contracts are needed. You could have left at anytime. Or sent them 40$ and had them mail your packet for the same price as their mandatory breakfast and not gone at all.

[ssarge]

5) The Gold meeting dragged on due to the GOBs whining about territory tournament directors alledged mistreatment of SoCal Gold teams. Should have been a one-on-one conversation between the whiners and the age director....nobody else in the room cared and it extended the meeting needlessly.

Sam:

First, I feel your pain. I will NEVER again attend an ASA Association meeting. I will live with being held hostage for obtaining a FREAKING RULE BOOK by not attending (absolutely unbelievable). At least in our area, it is an absolutely mind-numbing waste of an evening. The whole thing could be reduced to about a 3-slide PPT presentation, and instead, I have sat there for 4 hours listening to coaches babble on about some of the most ridiculous examples they could devise to show me how much smarter than me they are.

Fine, point conceded, you're brilliant. I am intimidated and will just stay away in the future.


And obviously, as a NorCal coach, I wasn't at the SoCal Association meeting you are referencing. And the ASA policies are what they are. I think we all know that nothing is going to change because of input at an Association meeting. Perhaps a separate forum could / should have been arranged for the Gold teams.

All that said, I understand - and like many, share - the concerns about Gold qualifying. And can't imagine where else those concerns could be as meaningfully aired.


From my perspective, and for whatever reason, ASA is making a purposeful attempt to limit Gold qualifying from the Western Territory (which includes more than SoCal, obviously - 6 teams from NorCal - including ours - and about 3 from the Northwest qualified last year). Plus Arizona and Colorado, wich are now PART of the Western Territory.

The elimination of returning berths - new this year - is certainly a consideration. From this point forward, this will throw 2-4 Southern California teams each year back into local qualifying. And there may be good reasons for it - debatable - but the effect is that there are less net berths available to strong - but not National Power - teams elsewhere in the West. By "less," I mean less than in the past.

Also, The Southern Territory has 24 berths, inclusive of the 4 Regionals (Regions 4, 5, 6, & 7) and the 2 Territorial Qualifiers. The Western Territory has 21 berths (including the Regionals in 13, 14, & 15) and the 2 Territorial Qualifiers. But there are far more teams in the Western Territory than in the Southern Territory. (There are about 150 teams in the Western Territory, and about 115 in the Southern. In fact, the entire rest of the country has about 170 Gold teams compared to the 150 in the Western Territory). 47% of the teams, one-third of the berths. How can that possibly be appropriate? This is a HUGE change for 2008.

As for going out of the Territory to qualify: There are very few Territory Qualifiers outside the West on dates different than the Western Qualifiers. And those that are scheduled may not allow teams from outside the territory to enter (basically, if 24 teams are entered by April 14, the qualifier does not have to be opened up to out of the territory teams. And last year, the Sector 1 (NE) tournament did NOT have 24 teams entered by April 14 - by mandate, it should have been an open qualifier. But entries were refused by the TD, and ASA did nothing to stop it). But the Beach Girls were in Oregon (to their credit). The Western Sector DID run an open qualifying tournament.

The National qualifier (2 berths) conflicts with a Western Territory qualifier. It's a stretch to say that is an opportunity for teams from the West.

So anyway, there are 21 berths from the Western Territory. And realistically, there won't be too many more Western teams than that qualifying any other way. So, roughly 1/3 of the total berths, but far more than 1/3 of the registered teams reside in the Western Territory. And I think it could at least be argued that FAR more than 1/3 of the really elite teams reside in the Western Territory.


And you know, so what? It is what it is. We'll all show up and play whoever is in the other dugout. But it has changed dramatically, and exactly NONE of the changes are in the favor of the Western Territory which has obviously been the backbone of ASA. But as it turns out, ARE in the favor of parts of the country where ASA really has to compete for mindshare. This may / may not be a coincidence. And for all I know, is in the best interests of the game as a whole (though that would have to be explained to me).


And I would submit that perhaps, people in divisions other than Gold probably SHOULD care. Most of these changes happened in the Gold division almost overnight, and it could certainly trickle down to the other divisions in the near future.


As always, best regards,

Scott

[Sam]

I disagree Sam
The meeting is one of the few times, you get all the Gold coaches in the same room. In fact the only time once a year .Perfect opportunity to inform everyone at the same time and also let the coordinator know. Those of us with concerns have been writing and petitioning for years to help improve Gold and fight off the constant changes they make to try and tweak what isn't broke.

The discussion on out of Territory (not out of state) qualifiers was because other commissioners are purposely making rules to suit their area teams and not follow code. You may have no interest and we certainly are not going out of territory to qualify but many in that room are and they want to know what is going on.

You are certainly welcome to your opinion but it had little to do about the GOBs as they typically qualify anyway and more to do with helping defend the interests of Socal ASA within the Gold division and helping maintain the integrity of the sport within the entire division. Ask Arizona, Georgia and Florida what they think of the new territories and ask the coaches what input they had to a system that now benefits the Mid West and North East. Ask any Gold coach Nationwide how these changes keep adding to the increased costs for parents to travel and play Gol qualfiers each year.

The meeting did not last as long as the other age groups and was shorter then the past ten years. No reason you had to listen or stay around, especially when you do not believe the contracts are needed. You could have left at anytime. Or sent them 40$ and had them mail your packet for the same price as their mandatory breakfast and not gone at all.

I stand corrected. Maybe it is time again to form a seperate Gold organization...away from ASA...who constantly ignores their best customers. Getting Western teams to band together....without registering ASA...is the only way to make them understand. I know you have done it before and I applaud you for doing it....what would need to be done differently this time, in your opinion.

[Sam]

Scott,

I understand what you guys are saying about the direction ASA is taking with Gold and I really respect Andy for his accomplishments and for his dedication to the sport. He lead the charge to provide an alternative to ASA Gold a few years ago....which is what I think needs to be done again. As long as ASA thinks they can do whatever they want and know that you will keep coming back for more, we...as their customers, have lost. We have annointed them king and are their loyal subjects.....but history tells us that kings are always overthrown...even if for a short time.....if that doesn't work....lets sue em.