Bat rolling and shaving

[starbound]

Unpinva here is the site
http://worldshottestbats.com/batShaving.php

I guess it is not illegal to do this to a bat it is just illegal to use the bat in the game.

[Cannonball]

I really am trying to understand this. We (generality) want to teach our children to cheat? How do we justify this? Everyone else is doing it? It isn't cheating if you don't get caught? No one will know? I'm not a holier than thou person believe me, however, I won't teach my child to cheat. ...and we wonder why we're in this shape as a society. I have a handout in class that states that in one poll, 90% of the graduating seniors admitted to cheating on tests in high school. No wonder.

BTW, I love the disclaimer on the website for shaving that those bats are to be used in homerun hitting contest. Isn't that still cheating? Sammy?

[umpinva]

Unpinva here is the site
http://worldshottestbats.com/batShaving.php

I guess it is not illegal to do this to a bat it is just illegal to use the bat in the game.

Thanks for the information. No, the bat should not be used in a game.

[3Bsnag]

Why, oh why, oh why, would a women be pitching in a co-ed league? We had one team last season with one and it completely jacked up our game for the first couple of innings because everyone was trying to pull the ball so it didn't hit her. We finally decided to just play ball, she chose that spot. Not that we were hitting at her, but I was in fear for her. I could go on, but that's a different thread.

I do think the shaved bat issue is more rampant in the slow pitch world. If parents are willing to do that for their DD, they suck, but I've never heard of it around here.

Slow pitch? You bet it's popular and most people don't send their bat off, they do it themselves. I know, there's two in my garage now (courtesy of my other half). Both bats are already ASA banned and are just fun to take out when we're just messing around because they other team was a no show.

[bradrhod]

There are no laws against altering any piece of equipment. There are ASA rules against using that piece of equipment in a game. Definitely different than a law.

Rolling a bat, or beating it against a telephone pole or heating it are all against the current sets of rules. Basically anything you might do to a bat to alter it's performance in any way is against the rules.

ASA was able to take several bat doctors to court. They sued them for copyright infringment. When these bats are sold on ebay there are two potential copyrights that are infringed. There is the bat manufacturer logo and there is the ASA stamp. ASA was able to get the court to disallow the sale and advertisement of these bats based on these copyrights. So you can no longer advertise these bats as an 'Easton' or 'ASA approved', and you may have to remove the Easton and ASA logo from the bats. But, there are no laws on any books that keep you from modifying a bat.

Of course this is bit of a broadening of copyrights. Basically it says you may not be able to sell your Ford car as a Ford because you have installed wider tires.

[Bucket Mom]

First off, I am not real sure why a woman pitcher has any more chance of being hurt while pitching than a male pitcher, but that is a different thread.

In the case of the woman that was hit in our area, the guy apparently dropped his bat right after it happened, grabbed his bag and drove off. I hope that he was in shock and not thinking clearly and not just a complete @ss.

[DBLUE]

The bats that go through this process will be very different, and not as hot. They will not just take the bats of today and roll them out for a good ABI. The new bats will definately have less pop, because the ABI will be produced in the factories. So, obviously there will less material to work with, and make the bats crack easier if someone decides to shave, or try to roll them out a little more. Your all right in saying the procedure is legal, but using them is not. But, I say those people that roll, and shave bats for a living are just as much to blame for all the injuries that happen out there from these hot bats. We've all seen some balls get blasted by our infielders, and all we can say is wow. They have that little disclaimer at the bottom, but tell that to the people that are being killed from these bats. Or injured quite badly.

These people are scum in the softball world, but until people really crack down and pressure these people, they'll keep making that $115 per bat they're making. I for one will be challenging bats this summer, and I think the tournament directors should have some sort of protest rule that allows for these bats to be put away for good. Tired of seeing people get hurt, or killed from them.

[3Bsnag]

Just in case all the blues out there haven't thought of it yet, the dead giveaway on an altered bat isn't necessarily the sound or a thorough inspection of the handle, barrel, and end cap. I can pass on altered bat by you in a heart beat. All I have to say is WATCH. Watch the teams put their bats on the racks (usually figured out at this stage), watch that no bats are brought out after dugout inspection, and most importantly, watch and listen to the teams whispers, laughs, "sshhhh's", and repeat useage of "that" bat. It is so obvious in slowpitch. We have won both bat challenges we've ever protested because the guys can't contain their excitement with their buddies.

Bucket Mom, I hear you and agree with the whole I can do anything a man can do story. I am a woman, but I think it's experience. The guys I know are pitchers on mens league and tournament teams. They have years of experience where I don't think most women do. We don't play 4 nights a week and every other weekend with the guys. For a girl to do it once a week, is suicide. I also think it's like the old agrument of women in war. You see a military guy get shot and you say poor guy. When it's a woman everyone thinks that some child won't have a mom. Maybe not fair, but true.

[ssarge]

This is not legal, and the rolling is not either. Nor should it ever ssarge! This is a very common thing in the slowpitch world, and from what I see nowadays, it is in the fastpitch world also.

DBLUE:

I think you missed the predicate point. Moving forward, bats ARE going to be rolled - prior to being tested.

I DON'T think rolling or shaving is prevalent in the JO FP world. I am certain it happens occasionally. But I don't think that it happens often. I also don't believe that injuries are increasing. Either in ASA, where the bat performance and ball compression have been lowered in the past 3 years (and currently are much lower than in competing sanctions). Or for that matter, I don't think injuried are trending higher in those competing sanctions, either.

No one is able to cite any statistics otherwise, and the company in a position to know - Bollinger Insurance - has not raised rates.


I am in favor of a solid testing program, and of having finite limits to bat performance. For POTENTIAL safety and competitive equity. I am in favor of punishing cheaters. But the discussion mandates accurate information. While it is an emotional issue, the emotion shouldn't transcend the facts.

I think what ssarge was getting at is that the ABI procedure will basically be rolling. ASA will test a "rolled" or ABI bat to make sure it does not exceed 98 mph. But if I'm wrong I'm sure ssarge will correct me.

Slim00:

That was exactly my point, and thank you for restating it. Since a "pre-rolled" bat will be used as part of the testing proceedure, it is hard to imagine it will continue to be an illegal action. Of course, if it has already been done, there probably won't be much to be gained, either.

Regards,

Scott

[umpinva]

Just in case all the blues out there haven't thought of it yet, the dead giveaway on an altered bat isn't necessarily the sound or a thorough inspection of the handle, barrel, and end cap. I can pass on altered bat by you in a heart beat. All I have to say is WATCH. Watch the teams put their bats on the racks (usually figured out at this stage), watch that no bats are brought out after dugout inspection

After I've inspected equipment that the teams display and asked the coaches during the plate conference if their players are legally and properly equipped, I follow the rules regarding illegal equipment if it comes into play during a game. With players carrying several bats in their bat bags and the opportunity for them to only display the bats they want inspected, there's no way for an umpire to monitor different bats coming into play that were not inspected at the start of the game.

If a player is hurt from a batted ball and a coach wants the bat inspected for suspicion of illegality, I simply confiscate the bat and turn it over to the tournament director or my assignor so it can be sent for testing if necessary. Many legal issues can come into play if the bat tests as being altered.