Which rules??

[lvtwft]

Thanks for the sharing that info with me. I see where that would have been a problem if I decided to argue that call one day.
What I see a lot of is umpires not enforcing some pitching rules( leaping and crow hop) I see these often (IMO).
Also leaving a base early(ya I know I am complaining now).

[MTR]

What I see a lot of is umpires not enforcing some pitching rules( leaping and crow hop) I see these often (IMO).

So, your opinion is fact The question is from what position are you seeing it and where is the umpire?

Also leaving a base early(ya I know I am complaining now).

What many don't understand is that once there is a runner on base, the umpire is not in a position to get a good look at all elements required to make a solid call on a runner leaving early. That is why umpires are directed to be absolutely sure when making such a call. Seems to me that would be preferred to guessing. What amazes me is how often we hear "You have to make that call, there is no way she beats MY catcher's arm" or something similar.

[Patrick]

The tie goes to the umpire!

[GIMNEPIWO]

What I see a lot of is umpires not enforcing some pitching rules( leaping and crow hop) I see these often (IMO).

So, your opinion is fact The question is from what position are you seeing it and where is the umpire?

Come on M, You have to admit, that for whatever reason, from 10u all the way to NCAA ball, the pitching violations are probably the worst enforced of all the rules

I will opine that the enforcement of the pitching rules are certainly the most 'monday morning quarterbacked'

[lvtwft]

As a coach I have a great view of the girls pitching .
Perhaps the umps do not have the greatest view, but that would need to be addressed at a different level to be able to see, make the call and able to call plays on the bases.
I run into a lot of umps that have a hard time understanding all the rules for P'ing(I am no expert), we do play in Nor-Cal often so that might be it...

[nohesitation]

Come on M, You have to admit, that for whatever reason, from 10u all the way to NCAA ball, the pitching violations are probably the worst enforced of all the rules

Pitching violations happen, every game, maybe, every pitch probably not. But lets be honest, 99.9% of games we are playing are non-championship games.

To me the coach that agues calls too much in a friendly is …… not setting a good example, doesn’t understand the friendly atmosphere (or can’t control him/her self). So would that “friendly atmosphere” not apply equally to the umpires? If they start picking apart the pitcher in a friendly, would that also convey a lack understanding of the friendly atmosphere?

I would rather see runner leaving early calls, than pitching rubber violations. I would rather see consistent strike zones than pitching lane violations. If the coach is competent s/he will have that pitching stuff corrected by championship play. I maybe shooting in the dark here, but that’s how I feel.

[lvtwft]

If it is a "Friendly" (not sure if that was mentioned) then I would hope especially at the younger levels an ump is able to tell the coach/player what she is doing wrong in reguards to P'ing(it should be a learning experience for all involved), also if a coach see's something they should probably tell the ump so he/she can help how they see fit. But in tournament play all rules should be enforced, otherwise why have them??

[nohesitation]

Come on M, You have to admit, that for whatever reason, from 10u all the way to NCAA ball, the pitching violations are probably the worst enforced of all the rules

Pitching violations happen, every game, maybe, every pitch probably not. But lets be honest, 99.9% of games we are playing are non-championship games.

To me the coach that agues calls too much in a friendly is …… not setting a good example, doesn’t understand the friendly atmosphere (or can’t control him/her self). So would that “friendly atmosphere” not apply equally to the umpires? If they start picking apart the pitcher in a friendly, would that also convey a lack understanding of the friendly atmosphere?

I would rather see runner leaving early calls, than pitching rubber violations. I would rather see consistent strike zones than pitching lane violations. If the coach is competent s/he will have that pitching stuff corrected by championship play. I maybe shooting in the dark here, but that’s how I feel.

I never stated friendlies vs championship play, and I would agree that you don't argue little stuff in friendlies, but I have seen it becomes a huge problem for pitchers that "get away with it" all year only to get it called when it matters. They are lost, usually fall apart, and wind up leaving the game because they can't fix it. Coaches don't have it corrected since they believe it never gets called anyway. Much easier to correct a runner that leaves early in a game than a pitcher that has been leaping all year.

I see it more as a coaching issue rather than an umpire problem. Like you said it will get called in championship play. Doesn’t that give the coaches that corrected it early the advantage?

[MTR]

Come on M, You have to admit, that for whatever reason, from 10u all the way to NCAA ball, the pitching violations are probably the worst enforced of all the rules

You are missing my point Whether you want to agree or not, applying the pitching rules over the years has pretty much been a no win situation for the umpires. Ever notice how the opponent's pitcher is alway illegal? The IP is much like the strike zone. Depending on the team's strong point, the umpire is EXPECTED to deal with the constant whining. Many coaches will admit that they know damn well the other team is okay, but are trying to "work" the umpire.

You know what? That is a load of shit. A coach's job is to coach the players, not jerk around the officials. About now is when someone says, "Well, it's your own fault that you take it". Really? And when the umpire stops taking it, s/he is "taking the game away from the girls" and all that other bullshit.

If I had my druthers, the rules would be adjusted and the pitchers allowed to do anything they want as long as the pitcher starts from a complete stop in contact with the plate. Obviously, there are additional parameters, but that is another thread.

And whether you choose to admit it or not, coaches not only teach players how to cheat, they also teach them when to cheat. I have seen it from 12U to NCAA. The biggest is the slide forward off the plate when the umpire moved to the B or C position where they cannot see the violation. The NCAA took care of a lot of that when they added a 3rd umpire to most games. However, it is still routine in JO and HS ball.

Unfortunately, the fan/parent/coach only knows what they see from their position and MOST have no perception of the umpire's assignments, priorities and mechanics.

[nohesitation]

If it is a "Friendly" (not sure if that was mentioned) then I would hope especially at the younger levels an ump is able to tell the coach/player what she is doing wrong in reguards to P'ing(it should be a learning experience for all involved), also if a coach see's something they should probably tell the ump so he/she can help how they see fit. But in tournament play all rules should be enforced, otherwise why have them??

Let me define “friendly environment” to include all non-championship games.

When you say “all rules should be enforced” are you including: Rule 12?
Rule 12: “The ASA Softball Playing Rules shall only apply to ASA Championship Play.”
Or
Are you willing to compromise a little.