fourth out

[artomatic]

This happened yesterday in the Dodgers/Diamondbacks game...I've never seen it before, but it makes sense.
It got me thinking that if this happened in a fastpitch game, all hell would break loose from the defensive side if the play was called correctly.
Look at the link and it describes different scenarios, including the play that happened yesterday with the Dodgers batting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_out

Here is what happened in the Dodgers/Diamondbacks game:
Example: A missed fourth out
On April 12, 2009, in a game between the Los Angeles Dodgers and the Arizona Diamondbacks, the Dodgers scored a run because the Diamondbacks failed to record a fourth out. There were runners on second and third with one out, when the batter hit a line drive back to the pitcher. The runner on third scored without tagging up before the runner at second was tagged out. The Diamondbacks left the field, thinking that the inning was over and the run did not count. However, tagging the runner at second who failed to tag up was not a force out, so the run was not cancelled. After all the defensive players had left fair territory, Joe Torre talked to the umpire and claimed the run. There were no Arizona players left on the field, so nobody could tag third base and appeal that the runner had not tagged up. If they had done this before leaving the field, it would have become the actual third out and the run would not have scored.

I'm also curious if any of you heybucket blues have seen this play happen?

[Patrick]

The run scored before the last out of the inning was recorded.
There was no force on that play, it was an appeal.
If they appealed for a fourth out, that R3 left early, the run would not have scored.
It made no difference that the fielder tagged the runner instead of the bag, same outcome.

[artomatic]

Actually, according to this explanation, it became a 4th out when they tagged the runner instead of the base. Had they tagged the base, it would have become a force out, and you record the force outs before any runs...because the fielder chose to tag the runner rather than step on the base, thats how the run became an appeal play, which the defenseive team didnt appeal.

[wadeintothem]

I did not see the play but a 4th out appeal in ASA may be live or dead but it must be made before all the infielders leave the infield. If they appeal after that, it should not be honored. So in ASA, the run would count on the timing play since there was no sucessful 4th out appeal - which in ASA is appealing a runner who SCORED who left too soon or missed a base and the 3rd out was made. If properly appealed in a timely manner, the appeal would negate the run.

In OBR I believe any runner may be appealed for the 4th out - not just the runner who scored (although it didnt matter in this instance) - I could be wrong on that.

Sample:

Tagging a runner or tagging the base never changes the status as to whether a play was a "force" or not. Bases loaded - the BR is out on the catch - which removes the force and thus creates the timing play. So you have the Runner scoring at home (who left earlY) before the 3rd out tag on another base .. so score. If properly appealed, the run would have been negated.

[Comp]

This play as well as tag ups was covered extensively at the ASA national school. It was emphasized that being required to tag up is not being forced to the base, it is a live ball appeal to a runner having not yet completed thier tag up responsibilities. In the Diamondbacks game, even if they had tagged the base, the runner had crossed the plate prior to the 3rd out and the run still would have counted. Mark Grace kept insisting that if they had "just stepped on the bag", but even this would not have changed the outcome of the play.

[McGee]

Hard to believe magor league players, big time sportswriters and possibly major league umpires don't know this rule. A tag of a runner or an appeal at a base is a timing play not a force out. All the D Backs had to do was appeal the play at third and the run does not count. The fourth out appeal has happened a few times for me and I coached a game where a fifth out appeal could have occured, but umpires and everyone else did not know the rule and we were already up by 20 so I did not push it.

[MTR]

Hard to believe magor league players, big time sportswriters and possibly major league umpires don't know this rule. A tag of a runner or an appeal at a base is a timing play not a force out.

No, that is not totally correct. Tag a forced runner and it is a force play, all games, all rule sets. Also, an appeal at a base to which the subject runner was forced, is a force play, all games, all rule sets.

[artomatic]

Hard to believe magor league players, big time sportswriters and possibly major league umpires don't know this rule. A tag of a runner or an appeal at a base is a timing play not a force out.

No, that is not totally correct. Tag a forced runner and it is a force play, all games, all rule sets. Also, an appeal at a base to which the subject runner was forced, is a force play, all games, all rule sets.

What am i missing here?
If the tagging of the runner in this situation was a force out, why does the run still stand unless appealed? wouldn't it be wiped out if they count the force outs before any runs?
Or was the tagging of the runner not a force?

[GIMNEPIWO]

The tag at 2nd was the third out ... there needed to be an appeal of the runner leaving 3rd early for the 4th out, which would have negated the run ... Me thinks ...

[goodeye]

The tag of the runner was not a force out. So the fourth out appeal needed to be made. If the defensive player would have stepped on second base, that would have been a force out and the run would not have been allowed.