I need a ruling; Play at the plate

[Lunatic Fringe]

I am looking for guidance from the worthies here on the 'bucket

The situation is a play at the plate with the catcher set up up the 3rd base line by let's say 3', effectively blocking the plate from the runner trying to score.

Is the obstruction and if so, when is it obstruction and when is it not?

My daughter twisted her knee trying to slide around a catcher this past weekend where the catcher was set up the way I described above. The throw came in a couple of beats behind her as she scored, so there was a play but it wasn't close. She asked me what else she could have done & I'll confess that I am stumped. The runners are taught not to hit the catcher, but that is what I'd rather see her do instead of possibly tearing up her knee.

Anyway,

I hate to see the runners get hurt trying to score with the catchers setting up to intentionally block the plate. I understand that the catcher has a job to do, but doesn't the runner have a right to a clear path to the plate?

[GIMNEPIWO]

WTF ? ... Didn't we just have this thread ... Is this a cornfield re-do or am I having a Cheech & Chong ?

EDIT ... Lunatic is multi-forumgasmic

[Lunatic Fringe]

Sorry, Dude I didn't mean to offend.

I'm trolling for umpires/officials opinions and thought after the fact that I should have put the post under the Umpire/Rules section in the first place, so I recreated it here.

[GIMNEPIWO]

No worries LF ... just havin' a laugh ...

[GSB]

Teach the hook slide.

[Blind Squirrel]

You might try posting your questions here:

http://forum.officiating.com/softball/

John

[Bretman]

Considering the play as described, my ruling would be...SAFE!

If I ruled that the runner was obstructed (and it's entirely possible that she was, if she was forced to alter her path to the base by a defender without possession of the ball), then my ruling would be...SAFE!

Really, as far as a ruling goes, that is the only option the umpire has on this play. The runner successfully reached the plate before being tagged. She's safe, whether obstructed or not. If she was obstructed and still scored, we can't give her an extra bonus run or give her team four outs that inning.

If she was obstructed first then tagged out, that's another story. When she's put out the ball becomes dead and we can award the runner whichever base we judge she would have reached minus the obstruction- likely home on this play. So the run would still score.

Sliding in and of itself is a dangerous activity, causing more injuries in baseball and softball that players being hit by pitches, thrown or batted balls combined. Let me ask you this: Suppose that the ball had been caught well before the runner got to the plate and the catcher was standing in this exact same spot, but holding the ball. Would your runner have slid any differently? Would the risk of injury have been any greater, or less, or about the same?

It's good that you are teaching your runners not to "hit the catcher", especially if you mean "remain on her feet and forcefully plow into the catcher with intent to injure or disrupt the play". That is against the rules and can result in being both called out and ejected. But if the runner contacts the defender while sliding- as long as the slide in a normal one designed to reach the base- the runner is allowed to make contact with the defender without penalty.

What's a poor runner to do? Now you're getting into coaching strategies more than rules issues.

- She can remain on her feet and blast the catcher into next week, risking greater injury and getting ejected from the game.

- She can remain on her feet and make some move to reach around the catcher and touch the plate while trying to avoid excessive contact with the catcher.

- She can slide directly into the catcher and hope that it pushes her off the plate enough that she can score.

- She can execute some sort of hook slide or backdoor slide to go around the catcher.

The first option is obviously the worst and I am not recommending that. The next three are all 100% legal moves the runner can make and IF SHE IS OBSTRUCTED BY A DEFENDER WITHOUT THE BALL WHILE MAKING THEM she is protected from being put out and will likely be awarded home plate anyway.

[Popsof4]

Honestly, my 15 year old DD would hit the Sh@t out of the catcher. Her gold coach would be shocked and her 14u coach in the stands would laugh and say "any opportunity that kid has she is gonna run you over". My 12 year would get in trouble for not doing the same.

My wife would act shocked in the stands and Hi-5 her in the car.

JMO

[Bretman]

And people wonder where kids get this stuff...

Apparently, they are being encouraged by their very own coaches and parents to willfully violate the rules and use illegal, dangerous and unsportsmanlike tactics that can result in serious injury .

It's no wonder that kids don't know any better...

[softballdadcoach]

Honestly, my 15 year old DD would hit the Sh@t out of the catcher. Her gold coach would be shocked and her 14u coach in the stands would laugh and say "any opportunity that kid has she is gonna run you over". My 12 year would get in trouble for not doing the same.

My wife would act shocked in the stands and Hi-5 her in the car.

JMO

Then per the rules in ASA, she is at least called 'out' and quite possibly/probably tossed from the game... Running over any player is never a good thing--sounds like crossing the line between aggressive playing and poor sportsmanship, and at least costs the team an out, possibly an out and a player and at worst costs someone an innjury.