three questionable calls this weekend - ASA girls fastpitch

[Coach11]

Sorry das....looks like you went 3 for 3 on the day.

Unless you have any info to add regarding any of these situations, all three sound like they could have been proper calls.

Welcome to Heybucket none-the-less.

[MTR]

2. batter is hit by pitch. blue calls dead ball and asks if she is ok. she says yes and she trots towards first. base coach intercepts her before she touches base, talks to her and walks her back to dugout. sub comes in for hit batter but hit batter never touched first and base coach touched hit batter on her way to 1b. blue says he called dead ball when she got hit and so coach could touch her and she did not have to touch 1B.

Well, this is complete judgment by the umpire. The rule (ASA 4.6.D) only permits a substitute to complete an injured player's running tasks IF the injury prevented the player from doing so. From the description, the player was capable of advancing the the awarded base (1B) and should have been required to do so.

A lot may depend on where the batter was hit. If above the shoulders, yeah, get the player off the field if necessary. But if anywhere else, the runner should complete her running tasks.

[Bretman]

The coach touching the runner here is "nothing".

The batter entering the dugout after being hit by a pitch is "nothing".

So, if she enters the dugout, and an otherwise legal substitute comes out and goes to first base, is that treated an an unreported sub?

[wadeintothem]

Its an injury. Unless you are going to go into the dugout and tell the coach his player isnt injured and to get on first base, you just let it go and get with the coach to report the legal sub. You cant honestly think picking this booger can do any good whatsoever?

You know when I was a catcher I never told my coach I had just had to get stitches in my hand because I didnt want to miss the game. He found out when a few heaters busted my hand open and tore out the stitches, turning my mitt into a bloody mess and I have a nasty scar from it to this day. Just because the kid says shes ok may or may not mean she is OK. Be smart on this, its a non starter.

The coach talked to his player and determined his player could not play. Thats it, end of story. Unless you got MD at the end of your name, write down the sub and play ball.

There is no advantaged gained by the coach on this issue either. He could replace her at 1B or just take her to the dugout - either way, its the same. A sub is a sub.

[Bretman]

Wade, your take is exactly how I would have handled this. It wasn't until MTR posted the part about the injury being "complete umpire judgment" that I got to thinking, "What if the umpire judges the injury was not sufficient enough to relieve the batter-runner of her responsibility to touch first base?".

What then? Do you bang the kid out? I guess my question was more aimed to MTR's response.

"A lot may depend on where the batter was hit. If above the shoulders, yeah, get the player off the field if necessary. But if anywhere else, the runner should complete her running tasks."

So, the kid's hit in the hand or knee and obviously in distress. In your judgment, she could still hobble down and touch first base. She does not, but her substitute does.

What happens next?

[wadeintothem]

I dunno bret, I guess you gotta start ejecting people as illegal players (since there is no effect). Its not an unreported sub .. It would be the most absurd thing ever. I feel like there should be a disclaimer for any umpire who accidently reads this

*dont try this at home

[MTR]

Wade, your take is exactly how I would have handled this. It wasn't until MTR posted the part about the injury being "complete umpire judgment" that I got to thinking, "What if the umpire judges the injury was not sufficient enough to relieve the batter-runner of her responsibility to touch first base?".

What then? Do you bang the kid out? I guess my question was more aimed to MTR's response.

"A lot may depend on where the batter was hit. If above the shoulders, yeah, get the player off the field if necessary. But if anywhere else, the runner should complete her running tasks."

So, the kid's hit in the hand or knee and obviously in distress. In your judgment, she could still hobble down and touch first base. She does not, but her substitute does.

What happens next?

You simply tell the coach the runner needs to touch the base and then put in the sub. At no point did I indicate that a player not capable of a pain-free trip to 1B be forced to do so. However, unless a doctor or EMT, the umpire must make a decision based upon what is occuring in front of them.

In the OP, the scenario reference, the player got up, said she was okay and started trotting to 1B. If it were a head shot, I could understand why a coach would want to get that player to the dugout.

However, that is not the case here, which is why I questioned the manner in which this was handled. The fact that the umpire reasoned that she did not have to touch 1B because it was a dead ball makes me wonder if the umpire actually knows the rule. If questioned and there is no further explanation was offered to cover his aspect that it was an injury that was the basis for his ruling, this could be a protestable situation. Why place yourself in that situation when all could have been handled with a simple, "Coach, let her touch first"?

[Whizzer86]

Wade, your take is exactly how I would have handled this. It wasn't until MTR posted the part about the injury being "complete umpire judgment" that I got to thinking, "What if the umpire judges the injury was not sufficient enough to relieve the batter-runner of her responsibility to touch first base?".

What then? Do you bang the kid out? I guess my question was more aimed to MTR's response.

"A lot may depend on where the batter was hit. If above the shoulders, yeah, get the player off the field if necessary. But if anywhere else, the runner should complete her running tasks."

So, the kid's hit in the hand or knee and obviously in distress. In your judgment, she could still hobble down and touch first base. She does not, but her substitute does.

What happens next?

You simply tell the coach the runner needs to touch the base and then put in the sub. At no point did I indicate that a player not capable of a pain-free trip to 1B be forced to do so. However, unless a doctor or EMT, the umpire must make a decision based upon what is occuring in front of them.

In the OP, the scenario reference, the player got up, said she was okay and started trotting to 1B. If it were a head shot, I could understand why a coach would want to get that player to the dugout.

However, that is not the case here, which is why I questioned the manner in which this was handled. The fact that the umpire reasoned that she did not have to touch 1B because it was a dead ball makes me wonder if the umpire actually knows the rule. If questioned and there is no further explanation was offered to cover his aspect that it was an injury that was the basis for his ruling, this could be a protestable situation. Why place yourself in that situation when all could have been handled with a simple, "Coach, let her touch first"?

I thought if the batter was hit it was a dead ball and the batter is "awarded" the base. "awarded" would indicate "given" so any sub could take their place at any time?

[MTR]

I thought if the batter was hit it was a dead ball and the batter is "awarded" the base. "awarded" would indicate "given" so any sub could take their place at any time?

Being a dead ball is irrelevant to the touching the base issue. The fact that it is an award is the point of the rule and ONLY applies to awarded bases.

ASA 4.6.D:

If an injury to a batter-runner or runner prevents them from proceeding to an awarded base, and the ball is dead, a substitute for the batter-runner may be made. The substitute will be allowed to proceed to any awarded base(s). The substitute must legally touch any awarded or issed base(s) not previously touched. This is not a courtesy runner, but a legal substitute.