Need Rule(s) that address this play

[henryg]

So we are back to my OP. Several people have responded with how they would handle the situation but as yet, no one has presented a rule or case book to support thier position.

[Comp]

Closest I think you are going to get.

ASA 10-3-C
The plate umpire may rectify any situation in which the reversal of an umpires decision or a delayed call by an umpire places a batter-runner, a runner or the defensive team in jeapardy. This correction is not possible after on pitch legal or illegal or after the pitcher and all infielders have clearly vacated their normal fielding positions and have left fair territory on their way to the bench or duout area, or after the last play of the game, the umpires have left the field of play.

[SoCalASABlue]

henryg;

There's no rule to overcome basic stupidity or forgetfulness in any rule book, which is basically what your scenario is all about. Even the "rule" cited by Comp is not really a rule, but is classified in the ASA rulebook as a "guideline" for umpires that is not required to be followed.

The defense (especially the coaches) was stupid in not knowing how many outs there were. The BU was not performing BU duties properly since the BU obviously forgot how many outs there were. The PU certainly was not obligated to correct the stupidity of the defense or the forgetfulness of the BU, unless the PU was feeling magnanimous that day.

JMHO.

[henryg]

SoCalASABlue,
I agree, it was ugly, there were way too many brain-locks on this (non) play. Batter, runners, coaches, and umpires all contributed. Had the BU not made the out call at first then simply returning the batter to bat with a 1 - 2 count and allowing the runners to score would have been easy. With the addition of the out call at 1st it was harder to explain the umpires final decision. Thanks to everyone for throwing in your thoughts on this one.
Henryg

[SnocatzDad]

Had a similar play last summer. one out, two runners on, single to OF throw comes home tag at the plate, umpire calls out. Catcher turns to umpire and says "That's 2 outs right." Umpire says "No that's 3 outs" catcher rolls ball towards circle and leaves field, runners come in but touch bases in order and touch home before leaving field OC comes out and says it's 2 outs and both runs should score. Umpire decides that he put the defense in that situation by telling the catcher there were 3 outs and puts runners back on base and finishes the inning.

Seems to me that was the proper way to handle it.

[MTR]

Okay, in the OP. you, as the BU, make an out call at 1st base on a batter that should not have run to 1st, and in so doing 2 runs score. What exactly would you do? Tell me how and where you would place the runners.

As comp posted, 10.3.C. I cannot tell you where I would put the runners without knowing the situation. If they were running on the play, probably score one, the other on 3B. If the did not run until the defense stopped playing, they are going back to their original bases.

Okay, in the OP, you as the BU, now, make no call at 1st base on a batter that should ot have run to 1st, and in so doing at least one of the runs score and possibly 2 score. What exactly would you do?

As the BU, not a thing other than tell the batter she needs to return to the BB and better get there fast

[nohesitation]

I witnessed a similar play where the umpire reversed his call to get it right. Bases loaded, 2 outs, 3-1 count. Next pitch is bobbled by F2 and gets away. Runner at 3rd takes off. Pitcher covers home makes the tag, PU calls out. Everyone clears field for next inn. Official scorekeeper calls PU over and asked what the last pitch was called. He thought for a minute and said ball 4. Called everyone back out, said runner at 3rd scores and resumed play with 2 outs bases loaded. Sometimes you don’t need a rule to get it right.

[Patrick]

"Sometimes you don’t need a rule to get it right"

That is covered by the rules.

[nohesitation]

"Sometimes you don’t need a rule to get it right"

That is covered by the rules.

There is some type of Yogi Berra saying here but I can’t quite get it…. If you have a rule but you don’t need it, then use the rule when you don’t have it.