another missed base scenario

[Battle]

Since this has died out somewhat, I have a question about this rule:

Runner is out.
K. When the runner is struck with a fair untouched batted ball while not in contact with a base and before it passes an infielder, excluding the pitcher or if it passes an infielder and any fielder has an opportunity to make an out.

Runner on 1st, ball is smoked past F3 but doesn't touch it and hits the runner advancing to 2nd. After the ball gets past F3, there is no way that F4 could have made the play. If it didn't hit the runner, it would have been a grounder to F9. I've never seen a runner not called out for this. Is “out” the correct call and if not, what kind of appeal would that be?

[tcannizzo]

There is no appeal on this.
Either the umpire ruled INT or not.

[Battle]

There is no appeal on this.
Either the umpire ruled INT or not.

Again, I've never seen a runner not called out for this and by rule, she's not. What do you call? Have you ever called a runner "not out" if it hits them? Am I reading this right because I don't know how many times I've seen this happen. Until I read this, I've always assumed that the runner is out if the ball hits them.

[tcannizzo]

Since this has died out somewhat, I have a question about this rule:

Runner is out.
K. When the runner is struck with a fair untouched batted ball while not in contact with a base and before it passes an infielder, excluding the pitcher or if it passes an infielder and any fielder has an opportunity to make an out.

Runner on 1st, ball is smoked past F3 but doesn't touch it and hits the runner advancing to 2nd. After the ball gets past F3, there is no way that F4 could have made the play. If it didn't hit the runner, it would have been a grounder to F9. I've never seen a runner not called out for this. Is “out” the correct call and if not, what kind of appeal would that be?

It is highly situational. At first level, runner is protected because ball passed infielder. True you have an opportunity for a 9-3 put out but it depends on where F9 is playing at the time. What you describe sounds like a screamer that is not far off the line. It is not intuitive to me that F9 would normally be playing that close to the line and shallow enough for it to reasonably have a chance to make the put out.

So, barring other "conditions", I would not expect to see an Out call in most cases.

[Battle]

Since this has died out somewhat, I have a question about this rule:

Runner is out.
K. When the runner is struck with a fair untouched batted ball while not in contact with a base and before it passes an infielder, excluding the pitcher or if it passes an infielder and any fielder has an opportunity to make an out.

Runner on 1st, ball is smoked past F3 but doesn't touch it and hits the runner advancing to 2nd. After the ball gets past F3, there is no way that F4 could have made the play. If it didn't hit the runner, it would have been a grounder to F9. I've never seen a runner not called out for this. Is “out” the correct call and if not, what kind of appeal would that be?

It is highly situational. At first level, runner is protected because ball passed infielder. True you have an opportunity for a 9-3 put out but it depends on where F9 is playing at the time. What you describe sounds like a screamer that is not far off the line. It is not intuitive to me that F9 would normally be playing that close to the line and shallow enough for it to reasonably have a chance to make the put out.

So, barring other "conditions", I would not expect to see an Out call in most cases.

That's what I'm saying. I've never seen a ball hit a runner and not be called out from the ump. Has anybody? The only way she could be out is, in the ump's judgement, a play could have been made at 1st or 2nd from F9. Not because it hit the runner. In 16s, I don't see a play happening consistantly enough for the umps to be calling a runner out. How do you fight this when it happens on the field because in my judgement, I think those umps are under the same assumption that I was? "If a batted fair ball hits a runner, she is automatically out". It seems that I have read that in the rules somewhere that states just that. I could be wrong.

[Comp]

Ive seen cases where interference hasnt been called, and I have had a couple of situations myself where I havent called it.

[tcannizzo]

Since this has died out somewhat, I have a question about this rule:

Runner is out.
K. When the runner is struck with a fair untouched batted ball while not in contact with a base and before it passes an infielder, excluding the pitcher or if it passes an infielder and any fielder has an opportunity to make an out.

Runner on 1st, ball is smoked past F3 but doesn't touch it and hits the runner advancing to 2nd. After the ball gets past F3, there is no way that F4 could have made the play. If it didn't hit the runner, it would have been a grounder to F9. I've never seen a runner not called out for this. Is “out” the correct call and if not, what kind of appeal would that be?

It is highly situational. At first level, runner is protected because ball passed infielder. True you have an opportunity for a 9-3 put out but it depends on where F9 is playing at the time. What you describe sounds like a screamer that is not far off the line. It is not intuitive to me that F9 would normally be playing that close to the line and shallow enough for it to reasonably have a chance to make the put out.

So, barring other "conditions", I would not expect to see an Out call in most cases.

That's what I'm saying. I've never seen a ball hit a runner and not be called out from the ump. Has anybody? The only way she could be out is, in the ump's judgement, a play could have been made at 1st or 2nd from F9. Not because it hit the runner. In 16s, I don't see a play happening consistantly enough for the umps to be calling a runner out. How do you fight this when it happens on the field because in my judgement, I think those umps are under the same assumption that I was? "If a batted fair ball hits a runner, she is automatically out". It seems that I have read that in the rules somewhere that states just that. I could be wrong.

Actually, you should have started another thread with this new topic, but heck Ray-Ray LOOKOUT!

Even 16's and up, you can have a relatively slow roller, or slap, where 2 infielders have a legitimate chance of playing the batted ball. One infielder is playing in and the other back, with the runner in between them. In this case, if the batted ball strikes the runner after passing the first infielder, you should regularly see INT.

As to how to "fight" (poor choice of words lol) this?
When all play has stopped
Request time
When time is granted, walk to the umpire that made the call.
Open the conversation with something like, "Blue, can I ask you a question about that call?"
The ump should oblige.
Then something like, "From your angle, did you see [whatever]?" Make it a Yes/No question.
If the umpire did not see what you did, then you might ask him to request assistance from another umpire who might have had a better angle because the calling umpire's view may have been blocked.
If the umpire's view was not blocked and the answer is "No I did not see it that way", then all you can say is "Good Call Blue".
On the other hand if he says he saw what you saw, then you could say something like, "Well, then by rule the runner is Out/Safe or whatever.

[MTR]

Since this has died out somewhat, I have a question about this rule:

You need to PM Numero Uno and get that "New Topic" button reinstalled for you.

Runner is out.
K. When the runner is struck with a fair untouched batted ball while not in contact with a base and before it passes an infielder, excluding the pitcher or if it passes an infielder and any fielder has an opportunity to make an out.

Runner on 1st, ball is smoked past F3 but doesn't touch it and hits the runner advancing to 2nd. After the ball gets past F3, there is no way that F4 could have made the play. If it didn't hit the runner, it would have been a grounder to F9. I've never seen a runner not called out for this. Is “out” the correct call and if not, what kind of appeal would that be?

Speaking ASA

This is simple. Once a batted ball has passed a defender(infielder) other than the pitcher, the runner is NOT out unless, in the judgment of the umpire, another fielder had the opportunity to make an out. That is an "OUT", not just a play on the ball. (8.8.D)

[Battle]

Since this has died out somewhat, I have a question about this rule:

You need to PM Numero Uno and get that "New Topic" button reinstalled for you.

Runner is out.
K. When the runner is struck with a fair untouched batted ball while not in contact with a base and before it passes an infielder, excluding the pitcher or if it passes an infielder and any fielder has an opportunity to make an out.

Runner on 1st, ball is smoked past F3 but doesn't touch it and hits the runner advancing to 2nd. After the ball gets past F3, there is no way that F4 could have made the play. If it didn't hit the runner, it would have been a grounder to F9. I've never seen a runner not called out for this. Is “out” the correct call and if not, what kind of appeal would that be?

Speaking ASA

This is simple. Once a batted ball has passed a defender(infielder) other than the pitcher, the runner is NOT out unless, in the judgment of the umpire, another fielder had the opportunity to make an out. That is an "OUT", not just a play on the ball. (8.8.D)

My "New Topic" button is intact. Does it really matter that much? Jeeesh!! I will only get a few replies on this anyway so why start a new one? It's only small talk anyway. Just interesting to me that I have never seen it argued. Besides, this thread will never touch the "This weekend in DFW" thread.

[Bretman]

Again, I've never seen a runner not called out for this and by rule, she's not. What do you call? Have you ever called a runner "not out" if it hits them?

Yes. Two times that I can recall in a span of about ten years and 1000 games. Both times the ball passed an infielder attempting to field it, it went past the fielder, then hit the runner directly behind her. And, there was no second fielder behind the runner who had the opportunity to make a play.

It's not like it happens often...but it can happen.