White or orange bag

[sbslider]

I had this called last weekend and just want to make sure if it was the right call. Batter bunts and is running to first the throw pulls F4 off of white bag and to the orange and blue says safe. The way I read it is if throw pulls defense off of bag defense or offense can use either bag...I have seen this many times and just would like your views. BTW we are talking ASA.

[Steve M]

I had this called last weekend and just want to make sure if it was the right call. Batter bunts and is running to first the throw pulls F4 off of white bag and to the orange and blue says safe. The way I read it is if throw pulls defense off of bag defense or offense can use either bag...I have seen this many times and just would like your views. BTW we are talking ASA.

Slider,
Without giving you the answer to your question, what does the rule book say?

Steve M

[MTR]

I had this called last weekend and just want to make sure if it was the right call. Batter bunts and is running to first the throw pulls F4 off of white bag and to the orange and blue says safe. The way I read it is if throw pulls defense off of bag defense or offense can use either bag...I have seen this many times and just would like your views. BTW we are talking ASA.

Slider,
Without giving you the answer to your question, what does the rule book say?

Steve M

How long do I have to wait, Steve?

[sbslider]

It says that either bag can be used if there is a errant throw....and another paart of that rule says something about either bag can be used if throw is coming from foul side..I don't have the book with me I am out of town. I am not a umpire although have seriously thought about it but am going to wait until my DD is done playing. This happened at the RM and she wouldn't even ask for help. I am not one of those hot heads I always discuss a call with respect I am just curious if I was right for next time....I found it and my interpretation is she should have been out.

[Bretman]

It says that either bag can be used if there is a errant throw...

Close, but you needed to read just a little bit further!

What the rule says is that "On an errant throw pulling the defense off the white portion of the base into foul ground" the defense and the batter-runner may use either base.

The intent of this rule isn't to let the defense use the orange bag on a throw that is just off the mark and requires the fielder to take a step toward the orange bag. It is meant to cover a play where the fielder is drawn completely off the base into foul ground.

If the fielder was all the way over in foul ground, and was still required to cross back over the orange base to get to the white one, the safety base isn't quite so safe anymore. You have just put the batter-runner and the fielder on a criss-crossing collision course!

So, if the fielder is all the way in foul ground, the rule allows her to use the closest base- the colored one- instead of running into the path of the batter-runner. The batter-runner has the option of continuing toward the safety base, since that's likely the one she would have been headed for in the first place and we're not going to penalize her for doing what she is supposed to do and not altering her path due to the defense's bad play, or using the white base since doing so might very well avoid a collision with a fielder who is suddenly in her way.

[sbslider]

In this case she was pulled way over in foul territory....just wanted to clarify I appreciate it....I was correct then but she was a new and very young umpire and it will just take her time I am sure she doesnt read the rule book every year....no biggy and thanks again

[Steve M]

How long do I have to wait, Steve?

Mike - Just long enough to see that he'd RTFB'd.

[MTR]

I had this called last weekend and just want to make sure if it was the right call. Batter bunts and is running to first the throw pulls F4 off of white bag and to the orange and blue says safe. The way I read it is if throw pulls defense off of bag defense or offense can use either bag...I have seen this many times and just would like your views. BTW we are talking ASA.

This, and a proposed addition to the rule book for an "errant throw", was discussed among a couple UICs, umpires of national recognition and a commissioner this past week in Reno.

The issue is the wording. There will be another attempt to clarify this rule in Shreveport.

That said, the purpose of the base and the applicable rule is to reduce the possibility of a collision.

Simply moving the the colored portion of first base does not qualify as an "errant throw" in this case. If it did, all we are doing is rewarding the defense for a poor play by allowing F3 to block the BR's path while catching the ball.

[nohesitation]

How long do I have to wait, Steve?

Mike - Just long enough to see that he'd RTFB'd.

This brings up a good point. Not everyone has a 2009 ASA rules book. Umpires and coaches get one each, if you pay the dues. This forum should welcome those without a book. We can get tough with the umpires and coaches with books.

[softballdadcoach]

I had this called last weekend and just want to make sure if it was the right call. Batter bunts and is running to first the throw pulls F4 off of white bag and to the orange and blue says safe. The way I read it is if throw pulls defense off of bag defense or offense can use either bag...I have seen this many times and just would like your views. BTW we are talking ASA.

Slider,
Without giving you the answer to your question, what does the rule book say?

Steve M

Not to sound completely like an a$$, but if the OP had a copy of the manual with him at the time, one could assume that the posting would have never been made. Why not just answer the question as posted if you have the requisite knowledge?