Follow
Donate to HeyBucket.com - Amount:

Welcome Anonymous !

Your Fastpitch Softball Bible
 

The Umpire Corner

Brief(?) Replant Discussion

Rule question? Get it answered here.

by slapperdad » Thu Aug 02, 2018 9:29 am

I am posting this after being asked by another poster. Discuss as you will, this discussion is from the "cheating" thread in the CA forum. I've tried to delete out all of the nonsense. The thing to take away from this is look at it more in general terms, as a philosophy in applying the rules, and less of a strict call/no call of replanting or crow hopping.

First post:
Monica Abbot is a professional player, I have no idea what Pro/international rules are. Perhaps you should direct your question to their governing bodies. At that level, rest assured the umpires are calling what they are told to call. 

Cheat stepping is not a term I've ever heard. It's not listed in any rule book I've ever read, assume you mean replant, which all the terminology you're using is referring to. 

There are a myriad of variable that go into the decision making process as far as calling an infraction. Far too many to list them all here, but one of the biggies is, "is there an advantage being gained?" Example there's a big difference between Monica Abbot crow hopping three feet and a 12U kid replanting 6" in front of the rubber who's just trying to throw a strike, and they should be handled differently in my opinion. 

As a fan, coach, or player, do you want to see a game that's constantly interrupted by "calls"? We've all been involved in these types of games, and they're no fun, from a fan, coach, player, or even official's standpoint. I think there is a move a foot to get rid of advancing base runners on illegal pitches, I think if you could do that, you would see it called more often. That is a stiff penalty. Best case scenario, you're putting a runner in scoring position, worst case scenario, a run is scoring. 

Also keep in mind, in many cases, on worn fields, there is a trench in front of the pitching plate, it may appear the pitcher is replanting, when in fact she's just dragging thru. 

I know at times this has been a POE for NFHS. Frankly at the high school level, I don't really see it being an issue, at least in the games I see. I don't see near the amount of travel ball that I used to, but I don't really see it being an issue there as well. Of course there are those pitchers out there, and typically everyone knows who they are that do it.

Next Post:
I will try, ONE more time. Keep in mind here, I'm not questioning anyone's education, MENSA status, or intelligence. This is where I don't think you have an understanding of rules, their application, and what is referred to as "spirit of the rules". Admittedly spirit of the rules is not a term that's used a lot in Softball, but it exists none the less. 

Assuming C77's post is aimed at younger pitchers, lets look at this from a couple of different angles.
1. What is the goal of younger age groups? I would maintain it's learning the game, honing your skills, having some fun, and keep them coming back next year?
2. With my goal in mind, if a pitcher is replanting a few inches, which is the better way of handling it as an official.
A) Talk to the coach, let them know what's going on, they should know best how to deal with it. If you (the official) don't deem it making an impact on the game what's the point in calling it?
B) Call it every time you see it, because that's the rule. I'm sure after the first couple of times, she's probably going to freak out, tears are always a possibility, as are irate coaches and parents. 
Which tact is better serving to my state goal? I maintain no matter what your goal, making this call all day er'day with younger ages is detrimental to the game itself. Now if we're in the 18 Gold championship, the "spirit of the rules" takes on a whole other meaning. 
3. What is the purpose of not allowing replanting in the women's game when it's allowed in the men's game? I can honestly say, I have no idea. To me, it clearly gives an advantage to the pitcher and should not be allowed. However there is a reason why there are different rules from one gender to another as well as from one organization to another. Each different level has different purposes and focus. The easiest analogy I can draw is Football, NFHS makes rules based on education based sports, their focus is on safety and fair play. NCAA is a mix, loosely an education based athletics, with some degree of safety involved, but moving more into the entertainment realm. NFL is purely entertainment based athletics. Safety takes a backseat, with the exception of recent head trauma issues. 
4. I have no idea what sanctioned body you're playing under, but the higher up the ladder you move, the more regulated the officials are. To be certain, regardless of the level, they are receiving some degree of input from their sanctioning body as to how games are called. Don't take my word for any of this, if this is that big of an issue in your mind, go talk to the UIC at your next tournament, ask what their take on this is. Ask if it's a POE, as if officials are being told to call it?
5. Lastly and I know this isn't what anyone wants to hear, perhaps the officials just missed it. Replanting would typically be called by the BU, maybe he's not watching? Or maybe it's a lower priority than watching the lead runner, then moving to the batter? 

Last post:
C77fastpitch wrote:Slapper-dad. You have cogent reasoning in your debate about illegal pitching. I disagree but appreciate that type of banter. I won't even answer the other two posters. I agree with part of your statement, everything done at a young age should be a learning process. If the umpire would explain to the pitcher what she is doing illegal, so she could work on cleaning up her technique, I would be all for it. But, to say nothing and then brag about what an outstanding pitcher she is, is too much for me to handle. Even if the drag were a bit bumpy because a hole in front of the mound precipitated it, I could understand that, but umpires are suppose to follow the rule book and not call a game according to their own whims.


I vehemently disagree with having the umpire address young pitchers. Address the coach, the coach knows her, knows how to deal with her. At the risk of sounding like a male chauvinist, when dealing with young girls, as an umpire I have no idea how she's going to react to me talking to her. I don't want to affect her in any way. That's why I choose to address the coach. I've seen some umpires bring the coach out to the circle to address both of them, I'm not opposed to that either. Again, we're talking younger, inexperience pitchers. 

I've tried to explain, the umpires aren't making these decisions on a whim, at least competent ones aren't. I'll grant you there are some cowboys out there who are there to make money, nothing more, nothing less. It's a roll of dice what you're going to get, I got nothing for them. But by and large umpires are calling what they're being told to call. They're applying the rules and interpreting the rules, as they are told. I will also be honest, the world is in dire need of officials. The official pool as a whole is getting older, younger guys/gals aren't starting or aren't sticking with it. The pool as a whole is dying, physically unable to do it anymore, or it's just time spend more time doing other stuff. I've given up travel ball myself. Frankly at 53 and having had the health issues I've had, it's just not fun anymore. I worked a couple of weekends this summer when they were short, and I'm just not willing to give up the time anymore. Between coaching and officiating, I've given up a LOT of family time, and it's time to give some of that family time back. My wife and I are empty nesters and it's good to have some us time again. 

I officiate Football and Softball, and am active in both sports, you have NO IDEA the emails, phone calls, texts, etc., I get day in and day out looking for officials from youth thru high school. There are some real issue looming, I'm not sure what the answer is, but someone needs to start thinking outside the box, in high school Football across the nation, we are nearing a point where Friday nights are going to have to be split up between Thursday, Friday, Saturday because there aren't enough officials to cover all the games. Pay is an issue, crazy parents/fans are an issue, time away from family, time commitments, sanctioning mandates, etc. Using myself as an example, in Football in Indiana, between all of my licensing fees, association dues, travel to and from association meetings, certification clinics, etc., I figure I'm about $400 in the hole not including my time, before I ever step on the field, for a $65 varsity game fee. It's not about the money for me, it was never about the money, but I don't want to lose my ass doing it. Not to mention equipment, I spend anywhere from $150-$250 a year replacing equipment/uniforms. Just spent $150ish for one pair of Football pants, a shirt, and a white hat for V games this fall. I get a new pair of pants,shirt, and hat every fall. I may be a horrible official, but I look good. However, when I'm on the field, under the warm glow of the Friday night lights, all is right in the world. I'm not very smart, it requires my total focus, and all the stuff going on in my life, the stress, it all disappears for a couple of hours. I can't imagine being anywhere else on a Friday night in the fall. Off my soapbox.
Every man lives by a code:
1.Always look cool
2.Never get lost
3.If you get lost, look cool
User avatar
slapperdad
 
Posts: 887
Joined: Fri May 01, 2009 7:28 pm

by MTR » Fri Aug 03, 2018 6:50 am

Point #1, when discussing rules and applications with a parent or coach, it is often lost on them that they are watching with their hearts, the umpires are watching with their eyes.

Point #2, "advantage" and "spirit" are buzz words often used by those who may not be that familiar with the rules or don't agree with their applications. Yes, there are times when a rule is meant to be used in a strict manner and times when there really is no purpose for application. Much of that should be covered in umpire schools and clinics.

When people note "advantage" especially in something like a leap or crow hop, they are trying to ignore the rule. Depending on sanctioning body, they are illegal. Whether there is an advantage or not often depends on the execution and many pitchers stand at different levels when it comes to that point. Some try, but just cannot pull it off while others may be so fluid with the motion, it is effective yet undetectable in real time. Monica Abbott is a great example. In real time, it is barely detectable and only if someone is looking for it. Yet for years she has gotten high up on the toes of her pivot foot and seemed to get a second push. Does she get an advantage? Possibly. Does every pitcher who tries this get an advantage? Probably not. The problem with the umpire determining, or trying to determine if the violation allowed the pitcher an advantage would be so inconsistent and questionable, it wouldn't be fair to anyone. IMO, that is why it is better off for the umpire to ignore those who can versus those who cannot and just call the rule as written or directed.

AFA the "spirit", there aren't that many umpires or coaches who have actually been in the room when these rules are composed and interpreted? Yes, there is a highway for the information to travel down from the top to the local umpire, but that is often skewed with personal opinion each time it reaches another level. Having spent years of attending the ASA council meetings, I have been privileged to be in these rooms during such discussion. I always felt proud that I could bring information back to the umpires in my state directly from the source. Unfortunately, I have run into some clinics or discussions where the same information was so garbled, the meant purpose and application was almost unidentifiable and that is a shame for the umpires receiving that information and the teams who play in different areas and come up against different interpretations.

JMHO
MTR
 
Posts: 2317
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 5:21 am


Return to The Umpire Corner

cron