Legal or Illegal pitching motion?

[wadeintothem]

Well you can lead a horse to water but you cant make him dance the polka, thats for sure.

[Colo Blue]

Pollywolly60 is correct. This is true for both NFHS and USSSA softball. ASA softball requires both feet to be in contact with the pitching plate, and no step back is permited.

[umpinva]

arrows22,

The only required pause is when the pitcher is on the pitcher's plate with hands separated. (6.1.b that I referred to.) This is when the pitcher is required to take, or simulate taking a sign from the catcher. No time limitations are given on this in the rules, so umpire judgement would determine legality.

NFHS Rule 6 SECTION 2 ART. 3

Once the ball has been returned to the pitcher, the pitcher has 20 seconds to release the next pitch.

Penalty for (Arts. 2, 3) An illegal pitch shall be called immediately. The batter is awarded a ball, and base runners are awarded one base without liability to be put out.

[pollywolly60]

Yep, you're right, umpinva. I should have said no mimimum time limitations are given on the pause that the pitcher must make to take or simulate taking the sign. The context of the OP was question of whether enough time had been taken to receive the sign, not too much.

[wadeintothem]

Pollywolly60 is correct. This is true for both NFHS and USSSA softball. ASA softball requires both feet to be in contact with the pitching plate, and no step back is permited.

You gotta pay attention.

Everyone knows that ASA & NCAA ISC both feet must be in contact and NFHS and lower level JO orgs they dont.

I'm talking about taking a signal, which a pitcher must do at some point prior to bringing her hands together.

Until the OP includes that .. its not a legal delivery being described. She just cant step back and deliver the ball and all in one continuous motion deliver the pitch. She can take her step back, take/appear to take signal, begin pitch or take her signal/appear to take step beck and begin her pitch or any legal combo as long as she does take a signal/appear to take .. but she cant just step back and all in one motion deliver the pitch.

You all caught up now? Because thats the issue.. thats the rule polly left out when copy/pasting the rules and the rule he did not consider. The issue has NOTHING to do with whether they can step back in NFHS.. it has to do with whether the intent of the rule.. preventing the quick pitch, is being followed.

[umpinva]

Can a pitcher start with the ball in her bare hand by her side and step back to begin her pitching motion, bring her hands together while in her motion and without coming set or pausing continue to the plate for the pitch?

I guess what I am asking is: Does a pitcher have to bring her hands together and pause before beginning her pitching motion or is that an illegal pitch?

Rule 6 SECTION 1 ART.1

Prior to starting the delivery (pitch), the pitcher shall take a position with the pivot foot on or partially on the top surface of the pitcher’s plate and the non-pivot foot in contact or behind the pitcher’s plate. Both feet must be on the ground within or partially within the 24-inch length of the pitchers plate.

a. Prior to pitching, the pitcher must take a position with shoulders in line with first and third base with the ball in the glove or pitching hand, and with the hands separated.

b. While in this position, the pitcher shall take (or simulate taking) a signal from the catcher.

c. After completing "b" above, the pitcher shall bring the hands together in front of the body for not less than one second and not more than 10 seconds before releasing the ball. The hands may be motionless or moving.

Rule 6 SECTION 1 ART. 2

b. One the hands are brought together and are in motion, the pitcher shall not take more than one step which must be forward, toward the batter and simultaneous with the delivery. Any step backwards shall begin before hands come together. The step backwards may end before or after the hands come together.

As Wade mentioned earlier, Polly in her earlier answer skipped 6.1.b. Rule 6.1.b is to keep the pitcher from quick pitching the batter.

Arrows22, you may want to review all of Rule 6.

[pollywolly60]

Can a pitcher start with the ball in her bare hand by her side and step back to begin her pitching motion, bring her hands together while in her motion and without coming set or pausing continue to the plate for the pitch?

I guess what I am asking is: Does a pitcher have to bring her hands together and pause before beginning her pitching motion or is that an illegal pitch?

We've had a lot of information on a lot of pitching regulations quoted, but the fact remains -

One simple question was asked. "Does a pitcher have to bring her hands together and pause before beginning her pitching motion or is that an illegal pitch?"

One simple answer - no, she does not have to bring her hands together and pause before beginning her pitching motion. That does not constitute an illegal pitch, because the pause is required while her hands are separated, to take or simulate taking a sign.


All the other rules info applies, of course, but these were not addressed in the OP.
She has to complete it in 20 seconds or less.
She may step back, as long as the step back begins before her hands come together.
She also can't be chewing tobacco!
She also can't be wearing jewelry!
She also has to be in proper uniform!
So sure, she has to comply with all other rules. I only addressed the question asked.

And yes, she can step back and deliver the pitch in one continuous motion. The pause is required while the hands are separated, both feet on plate, or pivot foot on and stride foot back. While in this position, she takes (or simulates taking) a sign. Hands may be in motion when brought together for at least one second, so if there is a step back, it can all be one continuous motion.

[Travel Ball]

wadeintothem: Please go back to eteamz.com. You and others like you are one of the reasons some of us left long ago. I will mark down Feb. 20 as the beginning of the end on this board. You are right Polly.

[Colo Blue]

Wade....,
I do believe that I was paying attention. First of all, the OP never asks about taking a sign or simulating taking a sign, therefore I don’t believe that that is part of the issue. The OP is talking about once the pitcher starts her pitching motion (which would be after the signal). Then you add a comment: “She most certainly cannot step back to begin her pitching motion (legally)”. This is wrong and confusing to people, because after taking or simulating taking a signal, this is indeed how a pitcher would start her “motion”. The OP also asks if she must pause or come set after the hands come together: No. So maybe you should pay a little more attention and not over complicate the answer.
The answer would be : yes it is legal.

[MTR]

Wade....,
I do believe that I was paying attention. First of all, the OP never asks about taking a sign or simulating taking a sign, therefore I don’t believe that that is part of the issue. The OP is talking about once the pitcher starts her pitching motion (which would be after the signal). Then you add a comment: “She most certainly cannot step back to begin her pitching motion (legally)”. This is wrong and confusing to people, because after taking or simulating taking a signal, this is indeed how a pitcher would start her “motion”. The OP also asks if she must pause or come set after the hands come together: No. So maybe you should pay a little more attention and not over complicate the answer.
The answer would be : yes it is legal.

Well, CB, maybe not. Since everyone is concentrating on the OP, it did specify "stepping back". Stepping back is not legal in your major FP organizations and since the OP did not specify the rule set, it doesn't mean that those who noted it are wrong.

What is confusing are those who offer interpretations without specifying the rules set.