Cheating?

[Smiley]

I have an ASA rules question arising from a recent AZ tournament. Coach turns in lineup with 9 hitters and their positions. Then the coach sends three players who are not in the lineup out to the field, but keeps batting the original lineup. Apparantly it was caught by opposing team in one game and the coach was "warned," whatever that means. Then in a subsequent game, coach does the same thing. Someone catches it, and the ump ejects the coach. What rule was violated, was it "cheating," and what is the appropriate penalty?

[GSB]

Really?

Rule Violation: Contempt of umpire.

Penalty: Death

[wadeintothem]

Unfortunately, fully legal in ASA. This should not be allowed and it is.
Let me clarify:

Legal in the sense that the ump should have simply added all the players to the line up and everything they did is now legal.

Changed a few years back.

But what happens on the field is all the coaches are having heart attacks, all the parents think different rules, everyone has seen different things ruled on in that past and the last thing a coach would ever think is that this is legal .. and when the umpire does nothing, it causes even more trouble.

Its a big mess. Not sure the solution. Personnally, I'd make it a rule to bench the players (disqualify them) but all action stands.

techically, ASA has made it such that you effectively can list your starters then add your other players later.

[MTR]

I have an ASA rules question arising from a recent AZ tournament. Coach turns in lineup with 9 hitters and their positions. Then the coach sends three players who are not in the lineup out to the field, but keeps batting the original lineup. Apparantly it was caught by opposing team in one game and the coach was "warned," whatever that means. Then in a subsequent game, coach does the same thing. Someone catches it, and the ump ejects the coach. What rule was violated, was it "cheating," and what is the appropriate penalty?

Unsportsmanlike conduct.

If they want to get picky, the game could have been forfeited based upon 5.4.F which states a game will be forfeited if a rule is willfully violated after being warned by the umpire.

[Smiley]

Thanks. Based on the prior post it seemed like a team could have nine girls bat and a different nine in the field, which doesn't seem right. Maybe I misused the term "lineup." I think the coach had 12 girls listed on the lineup card, but designated nine as hitting, with them all assigned fielding positions. Then rather than send out all nine listed hitters to the field, he sends out the 3 non-hitters (who I guess are good fielders but poor hitters). We were not involved in the game (or even the tournament) but have had a discussion about it on the AZ board and no umps have given us any insight.

[ice_67]

You might have an Unreported Sub violation, 4.6.c.

[Comp]

He was ejected for unsportsman like conduct after being warned for not reporting substitutes and then doing it again 1 1/2 innings later.

[Smiley]

Thanks. I think I understand.

[wadeintothem]

Sorry, wasnt clear. My post was addressing the rules regarding line ups.. which, yes, it is an unreported substitute; however, at the stage as described the umpire should have just added them to the line ups and made them a legal sub... ie there is NO penalty at all for what the coach did.

My post was not addressing the USC of the coaching doing something again after being warned... which is of course a toss.

Two different dynamics entirely.

Although there could be other issues since the warning was in a previous game.. dunno. I'll stick with the sub issue for my main points.

[artomatic]

Oh...I thought this was another Tiger Woods post...