Just checking to see if ?

[youknow23]

I was just wanting some opions.I cant predict the outcome" what if ? " but here I go. we were in the top half of double ITB one out a girl on third two strikes two ball. The girl at the plate hits a rocket and the girl from third is on her way home.The ball strikes the pitcher in the arm so the blue says he called time during the play because he thought it broke her arm.First and formost she was fine.Im about safety but................ come on. He made the girl go back to third. they let the hitter stay on first. But we dont score and lose 6 to 7.

[MTR]

but here I go. we were in the top half of double ITB

What is a "double ITB"

one out a girl on third two strikes two ball. The girl at the plate hits a rocket and the girl from third is on her way home.The ball strikes the pitcher in the arm so the blue says he called time during the play because he thought it broke her arm.

Okay, that's permitted.

He made the girl go back to third. they let the hitter stay on first. But we dont score and lose 6 to 7.

Doesn't seem reasonable unless, in the umpire's judgment, the runner on 3rd would not have scored had he not killed the play. Purely judgment and we are only getting one side of the play.

[SnocatzDad]

Umpire's allowed to kill the play IF they feel player needs immediate medial attention (as it should be). They then have the ability to place runners where they feel they would have ended up if they had not called time.

Unless as he called time he saw the girl at third base diving back I'd agree that it "seems" poor judgement to not allow the run to score, but it is a judgement call. If you weren't able to calmly plead your case and get him to rethink the likely outcome had he not stepped in, then your out of luck.

[Bretman]

Sounds like possible poor judgment in the placement of the runner. Also sounds like poor judgment and reasoning for killing the play in the first place!

Has anyone here ever seen someone have an arm broken by a batted ball? Short of seeing some blood and a bone sticking out, I'm having a hard time imagining how that would be a logical conclusion to jump to.

The umpire does have the right to kill the play and place the runner as he sees fit. It's no different than the dozens of other judgment calls an umpire will make during a game. Just because it's a judgment call, there's no guarantee the judgment will be sound, logical or the same as any other observer.

What's a poor coach to do?

You can talk to the umpire after the play and try to figure out if he ruled the way he did based on judgment or on a misunderstanding of the rules. Maybe ask him something like, "Do you think the runner would have scored if you hadn't called time?".

If he says that "in his judgment" she would not have, you're pretty much stuck with the call. But if he says something along the lines of, "Yes, but she's not allowed to score after time is called", or, "I'm not allowed to award an advanced base", then you have a protestable misapplication of a playing rule.

It can be tricky to finesse your way through a conversation like that, trying to pin down a straight "yes" or "no" answer on whether he thought the run would have scored or not. But that's all you really have to hang your hat on with this one and the only hope of having the ruling reversed in your favor.

[MTR]

Sounds like possible poor judgment in the placement of the runner. Also sounds like poor judgment and reasoning for killing the play in the first place!

Has anyone here ever seen someone have an arm broken by a batted ball?

Yes, I have.

Short of seeing some blood and a bone sticking out, I'm having a hard time imagining how that would be a logical conclusion to jump to.

I agree. The rule was put into place to get the player immediate medical attention when necessary. IMO, that is not the case in this scenario unless we are not getting a full description.

[wadeintothem]

I've also seen an arm brokel.. there are some people that can hit hard ya know.

But I agree, sounds like it was killed too quickly. I actually see quite a few umpires play "nursemaid" to players and kill a play too quickly or just overreact/over concern themselves with even minor dings and bruises.

[GIMNEPIWO]

I think part of the problem is 'old school' thinking about girls being not as tough as guys ... I had a play killed to quickly ( in my judgment ) several years ago on a hard slide ... That particular Umpire was a guy who also did baseball games ... I asked him if he would have killed it if it was a guys game, and he said 'no' ... I asked in if in the future he would do me a favor and call our games more like he would call a guys game ...

[MTR]

I think part of the problem is 'old school' thinking about girls being not as tough as guys ... I had a play killed to quickly ( in my judgment ) several years ago on a hard slide ... That particular Umpire was a guy who also did baseball games ... I asked him if he would have killed it if it was a guys game, and he said 'no' ... I asked in if in the future he would do me a favor and call our games more like he would call a guys game ...

I hope someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I do not believe baseball has this rule. Lacking such may preclude the umpire from ruling in the same manner.

Personally, I don't care for it, but the level of bat performance has almost made it necessary. However, IMO, there are very few other instances that would cause an injury serious enough to a player other than that of a batted ball.

[GIMNEPIWO]

I think part of the problem is 'old school' thinking about girls being not as tough as guys ... I had a play killed to quickly ( in my judgment ) several years ago on a hard slide ... That particular Umpire was a guy who also did baseball games ... I asked him if he would have killed it if it was a guys game, and he said 'no' ... I asked in if in the future he would do me a favor and call our games more like he would call a guys game ...

I hope someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I do not believe baseball has this rule. Lacking such may preclude the umpire from ruling in the same manner.

Personally, I don't care for it, but the level of bat performance has almost made it necessary. However, IMO, there are very few other instances that would cause an injury serious enough to a player other than that of a batted ball.

I'm not sure if baseball* has this rule or not, but if they don't it would further to prove my point of old school thinking ... As far as other possible ways to cause a serious enough injury, a hard slide resulting in a compound fracture ... two players colliding head to head ... both of which I have not seen but heard of ...

* this was in Dixie REC so it is possible that at some levels there may be a kill rule ... don't know

[Bretman]

High School/FED baseball does have this same rule. It's 5-2-d if anyone has a baseball rule book lying around and wants to look it up.

I seem to remember past discussions on baseball forums where it was stated that other amateur codes have a similar rule. Beats me, though. Just like with softball, there are a dozen different alphabet soup organizations out there and I wouldn't hazard a guess on what they all have to say about this.