Maintaining Control on a tag

[SnocatzDad]

F3 fields the ball up the line takes 3 steps towards batter/runner and tags which results in mini collision knocking ball loose.

Do you have to maintain possession of the ball through the tag to get the out? Runner did nothing intentional to try to knock ball loose and was running where she was suppossed to.

ASA ruling, and Nafa ruling if different.

[MTR]

F3 fields the ball up the line takes 3 steps towards batter/runner and tags which results in mini collision knocking ball loose.

Do you have to maintain possession of the ball through the tag to get the out? Runner did nothing intentional to try to knock ball loose and was running where she was suppossed to.

ASA ruling, and Nafa ruling if different.

ASA: The only requirement is for the defender to have possession of the ball at the time of the tag. There is no requirement to maintain possession after the fact though that is often cited as reason for a safe call.

In your play, if the umpire judged F3 had possession of the ball while making the tag, the correct call would be out.

[SnocatzDad]

Is there a specific case play that supports that, I had no takers on that argument last weekend, not even a shred of doubt on umpires part that control had to be maintained.

Got umpire to agree that player had possession prior to tag and ball was not coming out prior to making tag. No sale on out, no UIC on site to work with so I let it go.

[MTR]

This is the most recent which was included in the April 2010 Rules Clarifications on the ASA Umpire page:

We have received several questions dealing with how long a fielder has to hold on to the ball on a force out if they tag a base or to retire the batter runner prior to reaching 1B. The ASA rules say that as long as the fielder has control of the ball and once they touch the base with the ball or any part of the body, the runner or batter-runner should be ruled out. The umpire must judge if the fielder had control of the ball when the base was correctly touched to have an out call.

Play: B2 slaps the pitch toward the right side of the infield and F3 fields the ball with their bare hand and dives for 1B. In the base umpire’s opinion, F3 has control of the ball and is holding the ball securely while diving on 1B and touching it with the ball. As soon as F3 touches 1B with the ball, the ball rolls loose into foul ground.

Ruling: This is a judgment call by the umpire in regards to F3 having control of the ball when touching 1B. The runner should be ruled out if the umpire judged the fielder had possession of the ball at the time of touching the base, regardless of the ball coming loose after touching the base. The issue is control for that split second that the ball touches the base. If control is established when the fielder touches the base B2 would be out.

Before the "what ifs" start, remember, this is about control of the ball to retire a runner. Base or runner being tagged is irrelevant to the discussion. The definition of a tag addresses ONLY control at the time of the tag. There is no stipulation or requirement to maintain control subsequent to the tag or a voluntary release to demonstrate control.

[wadeintothem]

There is no argument if your player holds onto the ball. Youre not going to get that call in your favor very often, at any level, if they drop the ball.


How many umpires want to fight an offensive coach for your player who cant hold onto the ball?

On the other hand, just about everyone on the planet knows if you drop the ball youre probably SOL.

[MTR]

There is no argument if your player holds onto the ball. Youre not going to get that call in your favor very often, at any level, if they drop the ball.
How many umpires want to fight an offensive coach for your player who cant hold onto the ball?
On the other hand, just about everyone on the planet knows if you drop the ball youre probably SOL.

And that GAGA mentality is what has led to a complete misunderstanding of the rules AND many an argument that the runner MUST always be safe anytime the ball ends up on the ground.

I know we are in America where the path of least resistence is the most popular, but I'd prefer to get it right, thank you ver much!

[wadeintothem]

No you dihnt just hate on lady gaga.

[Coach11]

I believe the confusion on such a play has been brought about by the umpires themselves.
How many times have you seen a steal attempt, or a play at the plate where the umpire says "let me see the ball". Seeing that the player still has posession of the ball is irrelevant if the defender only had to have posession at the time of the tag.

[SnocatzDad]

I believe the confusion on such a play has been brought about by the umpires themselves.
How many times have you seen a steal attempt, or a play at the plate where the umpire says "let me see the ball". Seeing that the player still has posession of the ball is irrelevant if the defender only had to have posession at the time of the tag.

On a bang bang play umpire can ask to see the ball because they may not have seen possesion prior to the tag and unless they see possession post tag they have to assume ball was never controlled (i.e. have to see an out) the clarification we are citing deals with a player clearly with the ball controlled (i.e has ball and moves to another position in control) then losing during the tag. No argument can be made that possession and control weren't seen when fielder carries the ball accross the field to make a tag or touch a base.

I don't think Wade is alone in not wanting to make this call and hold up to it. What I don't understand is that most umpires IMO are pretty generous on ruling a catch on a ball that gets fumbled on a transfer to the throw, but pretty insistent that control has to be maintained through a tag, seems like the same principle to me.

[wadeintothem]

I believe the confusion on such a play has been brought about by the umpires themselves.
How many times have you seen a steal attempt, or a play at the plate where the umpire says "let me see the ball". Seeing that the player still has posession of the ball is irrelevant if the defender only had to have posession at the time of the tag.

I cant imagine why an umpire would want to see the ball on a tag play.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0HGs2l3 ... r_embedded