DH Question

[Hey17]

The DP may play ANY defensive position. If the DP plays defense for the FLEX, the FLEX is out of the game but may re-enter once. If the DP plays any other defensive position, that player continues to bat but and does not leave the game. So yes, they can both play defense at the same time but can not bat at the same time because they are tied to the same position in the batting order. If the FLEX bats, the DP has left the game but may return once.

If I put the DP in on defense, does it have to be reported to the umpire?

[Comp]

Only if you put her in on defense for the flex. In that case it would be substitution for the flex. Now, if you put the DP in to pitch, you may want to inform the umpire so that she would be eligible for a courtesy runner if you wanted to use one.

[Hey17]

Only if you put her in on defense for the flex. In that case it would be substitution for the flex. Now, if you put the DP in to pitch, you may want to inform the umpire so that she would be eligible for a courtesy runner if you wanted to use one.

F4 is the FLEX, i want to put F5 on the bench, DP goes in at F5. FLEX stays at F4. Is this okay? Tried doing this yesterday and the blue said no. ????

[Comp]

Did he explain why not? The DP can play defense for any player on the field without it being a substitution, except for the flex.

[GIMNEPIWO]

Only if you put her in on defense for the flex. In that case it would be substitution for the flex. Now, if you put the DP in to pitch, you may want to inform the umpire so that she would be eligible for a courtesy runner if you wanted to use one.

F4 is the FLEX, i want to put F5 on the bench, DP goes in at F5. FLEX stays at F4. Is this okay? Tried doing this yesterday and the blue said no. ????

DP & Flex and flex CAN play defense at the same time but can NOT play offence at the same time ... MANY Blues get cornfused .... If he was worth anything, you can bet he went home and checked to book to make sure he was correct ( incorrect ) ...

[twinsmom]

This weekend at a 12U tournament, we ran into this situation as well. I want to know what the appropriate action is as far as getting umpires retrained. Who do I call/report umpires to who clearly do not know the rules and despite us POLITELY offering to show him where in the rule book the Flex/DP rule states our point, the umpire told us he didn't need to look at any book, he knew the rules. We insisted that the umpire bring over the UIC and TD. UIC agreed that DP/Flex couldn't be on defense at the same time, but then wasn't sure and the TD (a gold coach from a very well respected organization) also stated that this could not be done. We also had an ASA "umpire cheat sheet" that is handed out to new umpires as a short but sweet run down on the DP/Flex rules. They also refused to even look at it (or the rule book). I understand that many things in softball are judgement calls and although frustrating are part of the game, but this is not one of them. Do I go to their direct supervisor? Head ump in their region? State head umpire? National guy? There has to be a way to make sure that the umpires get sent an "update"or "reminder". We were informed that it was dependent on the umpires "interpretation" of the rules. Here is what finally came about - just so everyone can get a laugh - try making this work in a rule book.

Game 1 - Started with line up as follows :

1) #1 - position 8
2) #42 - position 9
3) #12 - position 6
4) #3 - position 3
5) #2 - position 7
6) #20 - position 1
7) #9 - position DP
8) #8 - position 5
9) #23 - position 4
10) #99 - position 2 (flex)

#9 our DP is our back up pitcher. Player # 20 gets in a jam in the third inning. We decide to place #9 on the mound and pitcher (#20) goes to the bench. Umpires claim that we can't do that and keep player #20 in the batting line up. 30 minutes later, umpires, UIC and tournament director come back with following solution -

1) #1 - position 8
2) #42 - position 9
3) #12 - position 6
4) #3 - position 3
5) #2 - position 7
7) #9 - position DP - now pitching
8) #8 - position 5
9) #23 - position 4
10) #99 - position 2 (flex) - now batting in the last hole as when they pulled out the previous pitcher (#20) they "moved everyone up" in the line up and stuck the flex in the last hole as they "added her on". WHAT THE???

Just curious how to help "reinforce and retrain" a group of umpires in an area. Everyone gets a freebie, but I feel we all have a responsibility to the girls to get it right.

[GIMNEPIWO]

UIC agreed that DP/Flex couldn't be on defense at the same time, but then wasn't sure and the TD (a gold coach from a very well respected organization) also stated that this could not be done.

Game 1 - Started with line up as follows :

1) #1 - position 8
2) #42 - position 9
3) #12 - position 6
4) #3 - position 3
5) #2 - position 7
6) #20 - position 1
7) #9 - position DP
8) #8 - position 5
9) #23 - position 4
10) #99 - position 2 (flex)

#9 our DP is our back up pitcher. Player # 20 gets in a jam in the third inning. We decide to place #9 on the mound and pitcher (#20) goes to the bench. Umpires claim that we can't do that and keep player #20 in the batting line up. 30 minutes later, umpires, UIC and tournament director come back with following solution -

1) #1 - position 8
2) #42 - position 9
3) #12 - position 6
4) #3 - position 3
5) #2 - position 7
7) #9 - position DP - now pitching
8) #8 - position 5
9) #23 - position 4
10) #99 - position 2 (flex) - now batting in the last hole as when they pulled out the previous pitcher (#20) they "moved everyone up" in the line up and stuck the flex in the last hole as they "added her on". WHAT THE???

If I am reading your post correctly, then who do we call to get you re-trained as well ? ...

The Umpire, UIC & gold coach were all wrong ... Both Flex and DP CAN be on defense at the same time ... But you are wrong in that they CAN NOT be on offense at the same time ... They were wrong that your DP couldn't picth but correct in that you CAN NOT take #20 out of the batting line up unless she has left the game ...

If the FLEX bats for the DP then the DP has left the game ... If the DP plays defense for the FLEX then the FLEX has left the game ... If the DP plays Defense for any other player besides the FLEX then that player must continue to bat in her spot in the batting order ... So if # 20 was unable to continue and you do not have a legal substitute, then you take an out in her spot in the line up ...

[Bretman]

Wow. I know that the DP/FLEX rule can seem confusing- at least until you've worked through it and worked with it a bit. But your umpires, the Umpire-in-Chief and the tournament director took a half hour to come up with a solution that has absolutely no basis in the rules and, in fact, has several illegal moves in it!

The "solution" they came up with is....messed up.

[HugoTafurst]

(SNIP)
We decide to place #9 on the mound and pitcher (#20) goes to the bench. .

We decide to place #9 on the mound and pitcher (#20) goes to the bench.

Therein lies your problem - most baseball doesn't use the DP/FLEX rule....

I haven't made up my mind what I think about a$$hole posters belittle other posters by pointing out inacuracies in terminology

[GIMNEPIWO]

(SNIP)
We decide to place #9 on the mound and pitcher (#20) goes to the bench. .

We decide to place #9 on the mound and pitcher (#20) goes to the bench.

Therein lies your problem - most baseball doesn't use the DP/FLEX rule....

I haven't made up my mind what I think about a$$hole posters belittle other posters by pointing out inacuracies in terminology

I was going to go with " If you put #9 on the mound you will have to remove her from the game becasue she is no longer at the field you're playing at ... "