Scoring Hit or Error

[AlwaysImprove]

What guidelines do most people using for scoring in high school fastpitch? I generally refer to NFCA Beyond the Basics of scoring Fastpitch Softball: http://nfca.org.ismmedia.com/ISM2/MultimediaManager/ATEC.pdf

The situation, runners on first and second. Ball with a little bit of umph splits 3b and SS. 3b almost gets it, but not quite. SS fields it cleanly, and stops and looks at 3b. She wanted 3b to cover third. SS could easily have gone to 1b for an out. Hit or an error?

Parents scoring for our team regularly point to NFCA scoring guide. That guide leans heavily towards declaring hits. For instance if fielders are going for the ball, a ball in your opinion should be a routine play, but the fielders glove does not touch the ball, they go with hit. They reference this sentence in the guidelines: "1. when a batter advances safely to any base on a fair ball which settles on the ground or touches a fence before being touched by a fielder, or which clears a fence even if touched by a fielder"

They are actually, in my opinion, a bit goofy with it all. They actually have one girl on our team that will go running at the ball like she is going to make the play, and if it is going to be close, she will pull her glove back, so she does not get credited with the error. Forget about diving. In their world the girl that dives for the ball is only putting herself at risk to make an error.

Years ago i was a payed scorekeeper for Community college level baseball and they tend to use MLB Scoring guidelines: "(2) the batter reaches first base safely on a fair ball hit with such force, or so slowly, that any fielder attempting to make a play with the ball has no opportunity to do so;"

Also, for full disclosure, my daughter is a pitcher. I do not really care about stats enough to say anything or do anything about this. I only just barely care enough to post the question here. Our team is great the players on the team are great, the coach is great, we will do very well at the state level. Knowing what others are going through on their high school teams it is pretty easy to put up with this one kind of goofiness.

[dodgerblue]

You would score it an (ME) mental error. You can't score based on what she could've or would've done. I'm just kidding on the (ME) that don't exist and when parents question where the play could've gone I tell them that you cannot give an error based on a mental error. My DD is pretty fast so if you try to pump fake to another base to hold the runner then try to go to 1st most of the time she's safe or if the SS decides to play deep and fields the ball clean and the runner beats the throw is that considered an E6? I dont think so.

[AlwaysImprove]

I guess that is my point. MLB would score the mental error as an error. If a play should have been made it is an error.

Fastpitch scoring appears to reward the confused player as and penalize the aggressive diving player.

[PDad]

MLB would score the mental error as an error.

MLB does not charge errors for mental errors (see Rule 10.12(a)(1) Comment).

The official scorer shall not score mental mistakes or misjudgments as errors unless a specific rule prescribes otherwise. A fielder’s mental mistake that leads to a physical misplay—such as throwing the ball into the stands or rolling the ball to the pitcher’s mound, mistakenly believing there to be three outs, and thereby allowing a runner or runners to advance—shall not be considered a mental mistake for purposes of this rule and the official scorer shall charge a fielder committing such a mistake with an error.

If a play should have been made it is an error.

Not always. MLB does charge errors for not handling or getting to a ball that most fielders would with ordinary effort, but they do not charge errors for making a play too slowly.

Slow handling of the ball that does not involve mechanical misplay shall not be construed as an error. For example, the official scorer shall not charge a fielder with an error if such fielder fields a ground ball cleanly but does not throw to first base in time to retire the batter.

Fastpitch scoring appears to reward the confused player as and penalize the aggressive diving player.

Batters may get credited with a hit when a fielder does not try hard enough, but neither the batter nor the fielder are penalized when a fielder makes an unsuccessful attempt on a play that required extraordinary effort.

o - No error is charged when a ball is misplayed that was hit so hard more than ordinary effort is needed to play the ball. If the ball goes in the pocket of the glove and then Is dropped, score an error if an out would have been made without the drop, except as noted in q.

q - No error is charged if the fielder drops a ball after running a considerable distance to catch it, or if she fails in her attempt to catch it while running at a high rate of speed.

r - No error is charged on a dropped line drive if the fielder moved more than a few steps to catch it.

[sftblldud]

Listen(Read) you idiots, if it is your team you score it a HIT. No questions. Official ScoreKeeper at a MLB game will score it a hit for the home team and possible error for visiting team.

Always give your team the hit, when at all possible. Leave no questions.

[hit4power]

Fielder's choice

3. when a ball is put in play where a play is made on any lead runner and an out
occurs, or an out would have occurred had no error taken place, or the runner is
safe, but the batter would have been out had the initial play been made at first,

Spazdad - as I read the OP there was no play made on the runner going to 3B so I'm not sure the guideline you're quoting actually applies to this sitch.

Paraphrasing ATEC - when a grounder is fielded and no throw is made, credit a base hit unless no throw is made because of checking or holding another runner.

No runner was checked, no throw made, so I say it goes as a hit...

[CB_8]

FC, ss intended to throw to 3rd and bag was not covered, her choice was an attempt to get the lead runner.

[hit4power]

FC, ss intended to throw to 3rd and bag was not covered, her choice was an attempt to get the lead runner.

So is that different than this situation? R1 at 1B, Batter hits a slow roller up the line towards 3B. F5 charges, fields it cleanly, looks at 2B, decides not throw, looks at 1B, decides the same, and holds the ball. Hit or FC?

The point I'm trying to make is that I've always construed the word "attempt" in the manual to mean she actually threw to try to get the out, but the throw was late, off target, etc. Just looking at a base and not throwing (for whatever reason) does not constitute an attempt. Am I wrong?

[CB_8]

The situation, runners on first and second. Ball with a little bit of umph splits 3b and SS. 3b almost gets it, but not quite. SS fields it cleanly, and stops and looks at 3b. She wanted 3b to cover third. SS could easily have gone to 1b for an out. Hit or an error?

I see she made a choice to go to third, only no one was there. If she would have went ahead and delivered the ball to third it would clearly be a FC, but with no one covering she held the ball, again making a choice.

I can not justify crediting the batter with a hit in this situation.

[PDad]

Spazdad - as I read the OP there was no play made on the runner going to 3B so I'm not sure the guideline you're quoting actually applies to this sitch.

I initially had some concerns about whether that section was applicable due to the term play. ASA scoring rules use the word attempt rather than play. Besides that, interpretations of play vary from requiring a throw (e.g. interference) to not (e.g. lifting LBR). I'm comfortable it applies, especially when taken in context with the rest of the FC guidelines where a fielder chooses to do something other than retire the BR.

Paraphrasing ATEC - when a grounder is fielded and no throw is made, credit a base hit unless no throw is made because of checking or holding another runner.

No runner was checked, no throw made, so I say it goes as a hit...

That section is very poorly written and describes how to score FC/H when the fielder holds/checks a lead runner. It doesn't apply in this case, so you can't use it to justify scoring a hit.

4. when a runner is checked and no throw is made (a mere checking of a lead runner, or faking a throw does not constitute a play, unless no throw is made, but when a check is followed by a throw and the hitter is safe, credit a hit),

The highlighted portion distinguishes this guideline from the preceding one where a play is made on a preceding runner. It is FC when the fielder chooses to hold a runner instead of making a play. It is a hit if the fielder does a quick check of a runner prior to making a play, but is too late.