Unusual Foul situation

[Kerplunk!]

Hello All, I would appreciate your help on an unusual situation. This pertains to Girls Fast Pitch Softball, ASA rules. A pitched ball comes off the bat and makes contact with the catchers helmet, pops up, the catcher then catches the ball. Is this a caught foul ball? I have looked at Rule 1G (caught foul if another fielder catches the ball), What if the catcher catches the ball? Shouldnt it be the same? Supplimental Rule 22 imply's that it is considered a no catch if the catcher catches a ball that first did not touch the mit?

Thanks

[MTR]

Hello All, I would appreciate your help on an unusual situation. This pertains to Girls Fast Pitch Softball, ASA rules. A pitched ball comes off the bat and makes contact with the catchers helmet, pops up, the catcher then catches the ball. Is this a caught foul ball? I have looked at Rule 1G (caught foul if another fielder catches the ball), What if the catcher catches the ball? Shouldnt it be the same? Supplimental Rule 22 imply's that it is considered a no catch if the catcher catches a ball that first did not touch the mit?

Thanks

When you get a good answer, let me know. I believe there was a proposed rule change in the past few years that would have brought the two cited portions in sync, but for some reason, was rejected.

However, I believe the portion you have cited in the RS was supposedly referring to such a case not being a foul tip as opposed to a caught foul ball which is nothing more than a dead ball strike (unless the count already included 2 strikes in the FP game).

Rule 1.Foul Ball.G simply refers to the ball being a foul ball instead of a caught fly ball for an out.

[Comp]

Little more information on the situation may help. Did ball go directly and sharply from the bat to the catchers helmet, or did the ball have a perceptible arc to it?

If the ball went sharply from the bat to the catchers helmet, it is a foul ball. To be a caught foul tip the ball must go directly from the bat to the glove or hand of the catcher. Nothing more than a dead ball strike in your situation if the ball was fouled straight back into the catchers helmet.

Now, if the ball had perceptible arc to it, bounced off the catchers helmet and was caught you have a caught foul fly ball, batter is out.

[Kerplunk!]

SR22 "It is not a catch if the ball rebounds off the catcher, unless the ball has first touched the catcher's glove / mit or hand." Appears in reference to a caught foul tip. Since it is not a caught foul tip, I surmise that it must be a caught foul ball. Hhmmmm

Thanks for your time.

[Bretman]

MTR and I have gone around a bit about this one on a couple of other discussion boards.

The "sharply and directly" versus "perceptible arc" description of the path the ball took off the bat is certainly pertinent to making the correct call. The Rules Supplement is somewhat vague and the ASA rules don't seem to directly address what should be called when the ball goes "sharply and directly" to the catcher's body or equipment without first touching the hands/mitt.

Every other baseball and softball rule set I'm familiar with call this a foul ball, regardless of if the ball is eventually secured by the the catcher (I say "secured" instead of "caught" because the Rules Supplement seems to say that a legal catch cannot follow such a rebounded ball).

I'm calling this a foul ball until specifically instructed otherwise.

[MTR]

MTR and I have gone around a bit about this one on a couple of other discussion boards.

The "sharply and directly" versus "perceptible arc" description of the path the ball took off the bat is certainly pertinent to making the correct call. The Rules Supplement is somewhat vague and the ASA rules don't seem to directly address what should be called when the ball goes "sharply and directly" to the catcher's body or equipment without first touching the hands/mitt.

Every other baseball and softball rule set I'm familiar with call this a foul ball, regardless of if the ball is eventually secured by the the catcher (I say "secured" instead of "caught" because the Rules Supplement seems to say that a legal catch cannot follow such a rebounded ball).

I'm calling this a foul ball until specifically instructed otherwise.

Yep, I'm with BretMan.

[HugoTafurst]

If it went off the bat to catchers mask, then, original poster said "pop up" it had to be fairly sharp. For the ball to hit the mask nag go straight up...sounds like a good cut that fouled straight back and then forced up by the mask...JMO.

This happened when I was coaching 14's. We are hitting, down by 1 with a runner on 2nd with 1 out. Our player fouled one off of "HER" own face mask, ball goes about 26-30' in the air, catcher catches it and blue calls her out. We call time and have the discussion. The umpires had a little powwow and ruled her out. I didn't come unglued but I did chirp a bit as the game went on. If the catcher would catch one off the back stop I would say "we got an out" on and on. About 3 innings later the base ump came up to me and quietly said "hey coach, we blew that call...sorry"

Not sure if we would have won the game but I remember the next hitter moved the runner to 3rd but she never came in to tie. The bad call changed the out come of the game, clearly.

I'm ok with umpires calling them as they see em...but sometimes they can change the outcome of the game and "sorry" don't cut it.

FWIW....The OP concerned the catcher's helmet, not her mask.

[HugoTafurst]

FWIW....The OP concerned the catcher's helmet, not her mask.

FWIW-DF. That's what the first part of my post was about.

Was this the first part of your post?

"If it went off the bat to catchers mask, then, original poster said "pop up" it had to be fairly sharp. For the ball to hit the mask nag go straight up...sounds like a good cut that fouled straight back and then forced up by the mask...JMO. "

(05/10/11 07:08 AM EDT - edited to add):
from OP

A pitched ball comes off the bat and makes contact with the catchers helmet, pops up, the catcher then catches the ball.