ASA Umpires Needed in NorCal this Weekend

[AlwaysImprove]

It is very shortsighted on your part to cast PGF as showcase. The people involved have always had the most competitive teams. They have built a great alternative to ASA for national tournaments. They understand the sport very well. Not just one aspect as you claim.

It is also very shortsighted to cast them as SoCal only. It seems pretty clear the success PGF is having. At some point the high gods at ASA should at least recognize it.

The hotels in Johnson City, Montgomery Alabama, Midland Texas sit empty that week of the year. The other 50 weeks, do not matter. What we do for ASA nationals is get a hotel in a neighboring city. Then the first day we drive the 50 miles to the host city. We go to the host hotel. We offer them 50% of what they had been quoting us in February. They always take it. Trust me, ASA+those cities = parents ripped off. It is that simple!

Quite frankly don't care that ASA has a locked in political process, which is somehow democratic. Getting ripped off sucks. Perhaps it is time to consider a different process. One that does not have a primary goal of ripping people off.

You are not Nascar. Nascar has a draw, it has fans. It has TV contracts. Treating yourself as Nascar, as something that is wildly popular, that demands those sort of premiums. I have gone to numerous Nascar and Indy races. Getting gouged is a part of the experience.

Thankfully with PGF, playing nationals no longer requires getting ripped off.

[Comp]

Does PGF not require the teams to stay at specified hotels? I can assure you those hotels have jacked up their rates knowing they have an assured attendance.

[PDad]

Does PGF not require the teams to stay at specified hotels? I can assure you those hotels have jacked up their rates knowing they have an assured attendance.

It has been reported that PGF's negotiated rates are similar to what you can get on your own. If their rates aren't competitive, teams can pay $1,500 (about $15/night per room) to stay at the hotel of their choosing - which is a lot better than the jacked up rates for ASA Nats.

[okla21fan]

It is very shortsighted on your part to cast PGF as showcase. The people involved have always had the most competitive teams.

Is that way the 3 PGF qualified 18u teams didn't make it past Sat early evening games in the Region 7 18u Gold qualifier last weekend in Dallas? (placing in the double digits)

[MTR]

It is very shortsighted on your part to cast PGF as showcase. The people involved have always had the most competitive teams. They have built a great alternative to ASA for national tournaments. They understand the sport very well. Not just one aspect as you claim.

Really? How many men's or co-rec or women's SP games are there in PGF? Then there is the modified game and the 16" game played by both genders? There is no doubt that PGF hosts competitive softball, but I still don't know how you can refer to being the best when you exclude qualified players at all levels. IMO, PGF understands taking advantage of those who chase the carrot. Again, JMO.

It is also very shortsighted to cast them as SoCal only. It seems pretty clear the success PGF is having. At some point the high gods at ASA should at least recognize it.

What part of democratic process don't you understand? There may be some who think they are gods, but they still cannot change things on a whim or without consent of the general council.

The hotels in Johnson City, Montgomery Alabama, Midland Texas sit empty that week of the year. The other 50 weeks, do not matter. What we do for ASA nationals is get a hotel in a neighboring city. Then the first day we drive the 50 miles to the host city. We go to the host hotel. We offer them 50% of what they had been quoting us in February. They always take it. Trust me, ASA+those cities = parents ripped off. It is that simple!

Again, you are showing your ignorance. ASA doesn't deal with the hotels, that would be THE HOSTING CITY/TOWN/BOROUGH/COUNTY/MUNICIPALITY/VISITOR'S BUREAU/CHAMBER OF COMMERCE, not ASA.

Quite frankly don't care that ASA has a locked in political process, which is somehow democratic.

Of course, you don't, you are a socialist.

Getting ripped off sucks. Perhaps it is time to consider a different process. One that does not have a primary goal of ripping people off.

And just how is ASA ripping off anyone? You want to know who ASA rips off? The umpire community. Every time there needs to be in increase in revenue or decrease in expenses, the umpires registration or insurance programs are often the first source considered a target of such changes.

You are not Nascar. Nascar has a draw, it has fans. It has TV contracts. Treating yourself as Nascar, as something that is wildly popular, that demands those sort of premiums. I have gone to numerous Nascar and Indy races.

Living in and participating in a NASCAR market, I'm well aware of the NASCAR experience. In the stands, hosptitlity tents, pits, luxury boxes, spotter's deck, etc., been there done that and every hotel room withing 100 miles is marked up approximately 200%. But that is no different than as any hotel within 40 minutes of the beach or a Buffet concert, a college football game, a week-long music festival, the autumn changing or Boston/Philadelphia/DC on an Independence Day weekend.

IOW, any accommodation is going to increase their fees during any event they expect to bring people into the community.

Getting gouged is a part of the experience.

Now that is just an idiotic statement.

Thankfully with PGF, playing nationals no longer requires getting ripped off.

If you say so, but I don't think you would admit it if you were.

[AlwaysImprove]

I never said ASA deals with hotels. I am saying ASA has a political process that routinely selects Johnson City TN, Montgomery AL, and Midland TX. Those towns are all similar in one trait. There are a group of hotels in the town, and it is 60 Miles to the nearest towns. Those towns have strong Visitors and Convention Bureaus. Those towns have strong political support with in ASA. As an example, James Ellis is employed as Athletic Director in Johnson City and is Tennessee ASA state commissioner. This allows those towns to charge 200% premium for families that are traveling to an ASA tournament. I challenge you to deny it, if it is not happening.

PGF has shown ASA how it can be done differently. ASA can choose to adapt, or they become what they become. It does not matter to me.

As far as democratic processes, it was a democratic process that resulted in electing Hitler. Just being democratic does not ensure success.

[MTR]

Hey Mike,
Where does the substantial (at least high 5 figures) payment go that the host pays to ASA for a National event?

This is based upon information available at the 2010 convention and not provided by ASA's offices or management. In all, but one case, there was at least one other higher or equal offered. And, yes, deals are made and some bidders withdraw if they have already been awarded a tournament or decide to concentrate on the ASA National bids. But there are always more bidders than tournaments available.

2012 USA/ASA 2010 2009
10U $400/team & $4,000 47 36
12U $400/team & $10,000 101 88
14U $400/team & $15,000 156 122
16U $400/team & $14,000 160 164
18U $400/team & $5,000 103 139

Based on Avg # of teams the prev 2 years

10U - $20,600
12U - $47,800
14U - $70,600
16U - $78,800
18U - $53.400

Considering the anticipated returns the hosts (not ASA) stands to receive on their investment, I wouldn't necessarily consider these substantial amounts. It is the cost of doing business that the winning cities of Bloomington, Moline, Souix Falls, Montgomery and Johnson City were willing to invest. All are successful hosts with high ratings and pretty sure they wouldn't spend the money for the bid if they were not confident there would be a substantial return.

JMO,

I would assume that these monies go toward ASAs operating budget, the same as any other business or enterprise that operates similar events. Making money is not a new concept for any organization, but like college sports, the larger, profitable events pay for the smaller, costly events that are necessary to conduct. There are more and more tournaments that are being assigned by committee due to the lack of interested hosts and ASA's return on those are minimal if any at all.

Of course, bidding that amount and ASA collecting it are two different issues. ASA has been known to return/not collect guarantees if hosting organization can show a hardship/financial loss in operating a tournament.

[PDad]

2012 USA/ASA 2010 2009
10U $400/team & $4,000 47 36
12U $400/team & $10,000 101 88
14U $400/team & $15,000 156 122
16U $400/team & $14,000 160 164
18U $400/team & $5,000 103 139

Based on Avg # of teams the prev 2 years

10U - $20,600
12U - $47,800
14U - $70,600
16U - $78,800
18U - $53.400

Thanks for sharing these figures and your inside knowledge.

The changes in the number of teams between 2009 and 2010 are very interesting.
- Large increases for 10u thru 14u: Growth groups for USA Nats?
- 16u was relatively flat: Mature group attendance-wise for USA Nats?
- Large decrease in 18A: Sites? 2010 Hemet 103 vs 2009 Vegas 139 vs 2008 Moline 120