Obstruction - back to 3rd

[MTR]

Here is the link to the video. No OBS occurred before start of this video. R1 foot is on HP when catcher gets up. Looks like R1 hits left shin of F2 before ball arrives based on photo. PU is off screen to the left, with left arm out and no safe/out signal on the play. My main question was can the PU put a runner back at 3rd on an OBS play at the plate. With this discussion I take that as a YES. Was it the right call here. Based on my view here, No. Based on the PU view, maybe. But his judgement is all that matters.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZm2B9DkxdQ

Well, I'm still looking for the OBS. Never saw any hesitation on the runner's behalf. Looked like the runner scored before the catcher came down on her leg.

Nope, this is either an out or safe at the plate, IMJ.

[Iluvblue]

Well the original point was not to decide whether or not the player was out or safe, the plate umpire ruled obstruction on this play, and as i originally said, there is NO WAY IN HELL on the play in the video, that an umpire should be sending that kid back to third. NO WAY, and no way for anyone on here to justify doing so on a play that was boom boom at the plate.


That being said, it certainly appears to me the runner makes contact with the catcher, her body momentum pushes her upward and then she is tagged. A clear cut case of obstruction to me.

[MTR]

Well the original point was not to decide whether or not the player was out or safe, the plate umpire ruled obstruction on this play, and as i originally said, there is NO WAY IN HELL on the play in the video, that an umpire should be sending that kid back to third. NO WAY, and no way for anyone on here to justify doing so on a play that was boom boom at the plate.

That being said, it certainly appears to me the runner makes contact with the catcher, her body momentum pushes her upward and then she is tagged. A clear cut case of obstruction to me.

I don't see it. IMO, the runner scored and the contact with the catcher was subsequent or irrelevant. I saw no reason to call obstruction. Of course, it was an absolutely terrible view for everyone watching the video.

[Iluvblue]

you may very well be right, she could have just scored. But please go back to the point of our discussion a few days ago.

Knowing the umpire DID call obstruction, is there anything in the video that could possibly allow the umpire to send that runner back to third?

I say no, and the guy just didnt understand the rule.

[MTR]

you may very well be right, she could have just scored. But please go back to the point of our discussion a few days ago.

Knowing the umpire DID call obstruction, is there anything in the video that could possibly allow the umpire to send that runner back to third?

I say no, and the guy just didnt understand the rule.

I would think stating that I believe she scored would be a clear indication that being returned to 3rd would be incorrect. Which is something I can say now that I have seen all parts of the play.

[Iluvblue]

You should run for President:)

Safe was not the call, nor the question but thats ok.. I know the answer, it was really rhetorical.

[okla21fan]

You should run for President:)

Safe was not the call, nor the question but thats ok.. I know the answer, it was really rhetorical.

While we are picking nits here:

1) was it bad coaching to send the runner (the infield was obviously playing in) on a sharp ground ball in the infield thus running into an out?
2) if the coach didnt send her, was it bad coaching over all if R1 had the green light to run (off the hit) on a sharp ground ball in the infield (as in this play)

after all, this was the 2nd at at home. Who knows how many runs this could have cost to offense in this innning, had OBS not been called and sending R1 back to 3rd.

Would be interesting to see the full situation. (score/inning/time limit if applicable) After all, we are picking nits here right?

[Iluvblue]

bad coaching? uhhh, no, that is bad coaching to all those that would even think of that runner at 3rd with a runner at 2nd NOT to be going home on that play. This aint baseball where you sit and wait to see what happens.

Big deal if the kid was out at home, they would have runners at 1st and 3rd and be right back to 2nd in third in a few pitches. i cant tell you how many teams cost themselves runs and games by playing as you just suggested.

[GIMNEPIWO]

bad coaching? uhhh, no, that is bad coaching to all those that would even think of that runner at 3rd with a runner at 2nd NOT to be going home on that play. This aint baseball where you sit and wait to see what happens.

Big deal if the kid was out at home, they would have runners at 1st and 3rd and be right back to 2nd in third in a few pitches. i cant tell you how many teams cost themselves runs and games by playing as you just suggested.

So you don't see a difference between 1st & 3rd with 2 outs and bases loaded with 1 out in softball ? That being said, I would have sent this girl in this situation, ball hit to F4 or F6 ( unless she was slow ), but most likely not if it was hit to F3 or F5 with the infield in ...

[Iluvblue]

Obviously Id rather have bases loaded with 1 out, but I dont think we were disussing that. On the play described, if the runner doesnt go home, the f4 simply goes to 1 and gets an out. Now you would have 2 outs and a runner at 3rd and 2nd... not all that different than 2 outs and runners at 1st and 3rd was my point.
One scenario you NEVER score by staying put, the other scenario you score 50% of the time, depending on exactly how hard and where ball is hit, but that runner doesnt have time to sit and wait to see where it was hit or how hard.... she needs to be GONE as soon as she sees that ball is going into the ground.
And if the runner is waiting for the coach to send her, she is out at the plate. That is just a philosophy and style of play that teams do. Runner is going on any hit ball in that situation with a grounder. Are there exceptions? Always, but few in that situation.

And if the runner at 3rd were slow and no outs, I want her going , if anything to get off the bases where I might now have some speed at 3rd.