Illegal Pitches

[Steve M]

Of course, this reflects somewhat on the debacle of NCAA ball a couple years ago. The umpires were not calling the IPs and got hammered. They were instructed to call the IPs and were hammered. They were told to ease up and be sure, they did and still got hammered.

Even the Talking Heads ran replays pointing out why the pitch was called illegal and by the end of most games they were complaining about the umpires calling the IPs.

I think it was Kenzie Fowler who got nailed with the IPs. Candrea, who was/is instrumental in rules for NCAA, came unglued and like other coaches never argued that the pitches weren't illegal, but that the umpires were calling them.

In one interview, Fowler stated that no one called her illegal during the season though the NCAA stats showed that there were numerous IPs called during that season.

Agree or not, an NCAA coach knows damn well if their pitchers are throwing illegal and THEY choose not to correct the situation and then opt to blame everyone, but themselves when they and their pitchers get caught.

I can state with confidence that if the IP was removed from the rule book, every umpire would celebrate in whatever manner they could/would. Umpires don't like making those type of calls, but that is why they are out there. The NCAA doesn't like the rules to be called, get rid of the rule, it is that simple. There will be no arguments from the officiating side.

Amen to that. I called an illegal pitch at an NCAA national championship and caught all sorts of grief. The clown coach wanted to know "how far". Eliminate the rule and you'll hear no argument from me. But, just as surely, they will still whine.

[Comp]

The pitching rules are not that hard to follow. Every coach has access to them and should have read them. They all know, or at least should know their pitchers are illegal and should be making them work on being legal in practice. Waiting for it to be called during a game and then giving the umpire crap about it is a big load of BS.

Just did an exposure tournament this past weekend and we were instructed not to call any IP, just to inform the coach of what the pitchers were doing wrong. Saw stepping on with hands together, stepping back off plate with stride foot, stepping forward with push off foot, double touching etc. Every coach more or less blew off the comments and said they had never been called before. Rest assured they will do nothing in practice to correct the problems and the next umpire that does call it will pay the price.

[MTR]

Amen to that. I called an illegal pitch at an NCAA national championship and caught all sorts of grief. The clown coach wanted to know "how far".

Why is it when I read this, the first thing that popped into my mind was, "Well, the parking lot will be fine."

[AlwaysImprove]

The pitching rules are not that hard to follow. Every coach has access to them and should have read them. They all know, or at least should know their pitchers are illegal and should be making them work on being legal in practice. Waiting for it to be called during a game and then giving the umpire crap about it is a big load of BS.

Just did an exposure tournament this past weekend and we were instructed not to call any IP, just to inform the coach of what the pitchers were doing wrong. Saw stepping on with hands together, stepping back off plate with stride foot, stepping forward with push off foot, double touching etc. Every coach more or less blew off the comments and said they had never been called before. Rest assured they will do nothing in practice to correct the problems and the next umpire that does call it will pay the price.

Not calling IP's at an exposure tournament makes some sense. It is already a made up scenario designed to give kids a chance to be seen in the best light.

[MTR]

The pitching rules are not that hard to follow. Every coach has access to them and should have read them. They all know, or at least should know their pitchers are illegal and should be making them work on being legal in practice. Waiting for it to be called during a game and then giving the umpire crap about it is a big load of BS.

Just did an exposure tournament this past weekend and we were instructed not to call any IP, just to inform the coach of what the pitchers were doing wrong. Saw stepping on with hands together, stepping back off plate with stride foot, stepping forward with push off foot, double touching etc. Every coach more or less blew off the comments and said they had never been called before. Rest assured they will do nothing in practice to correct the problems and the next umpire that does call it will pay the price.

Maybe we need a web site where umpires can post the IPs they have called along with the school and pitcher's name.

That way there is no question over who has been called illegal

[Comp]

The pitching rules are not that hard to follow. Every coach has access to them and should have read them. They all know, or at least should know their pitchers are illegal and should be making them work on being legal in practice. Waiting for it to be called during a game and then giving the umpire crap about it is a big load of BS.

Just did an exposure tournament this past weekend and we were instructed not to call any IP, just to inform the coach of what the pitchers were doing wrong. Saw stepping on with hands together, stepping back off plate with stride foot, stepping forward with push off foot, double touching etc. Every coach more or less blew off the comments and said they had never been called before. Rest assured they will do nothing in practice to correct the problems and the next umpire that does call it will pay the price.

Maybe we need a web site where umpires can post the IPs they have called along with the school and pitcher's name.

That way there is no question over who has been called illegal

MTR, I actually brought up that subject a couple of years ago to someone at the state HS association. I suggested we should have a forum just for umpire access so we could post information about things we had seen and needed to be called consistently.

[UmpSteve]

The pitching rules are not that hard to follow. Every coach has access to them and should have read them. They all know, or at least should know their pitchers are illegal and should be making them work on being legal in practice. Waiting for it to be called during a game and then giving the umpire crap about it is a big load of BS.

Just did an exposure tournament this past weekend and we were instructed not to call any IP, just to inform the coach of what the pitchers were doing wrong. Saw stepping on with hands together, stepping back off plate with stride foot, stepping forward with push off foot, double touching etc. Every coach more or less blew off the comments and said they had never been called before. Rest assured they will do nothing in practice to correct the problems and the next umpire that does call it will pay the price.

Not calling IP's at an exposure tournament makes some sense. It is already a made up scenario designed to give kids a chance to be seen in the best light.

So that is where I have a problem. I call IP's in exposure tournaments, too. Here is what I am thinking (and what college coaches have told me!!):

"Give kids a chance to be seen in the best light". Does that only apply to pitchers? What about the batters that want to be seen? Do they have to face blatently illegal pitches that are ignored because we "don't call" illegal pitches? I was chastised at the LV JO Classic when a pitcher stepped (a minimum!!) of one foot outside the 24" lane, and I called that illegal until she got CLOSE!! That is a rule because batters are at a severe disadvantage when it is ignored. Hint: It isn't a screwball if you have to step outside the 24 to do crossfire that doesn't break!!

Secondarily, most college coaches I know want it called; even at exposure tournaments. They want to see if the pitcher can make the necessary adjustment!! BS on "do it until it is called", that doesn't help the college coach at all if you are told not to call it!! They want to see what happens when it is (inevitably!!) called; CAN SHE PITCH LEGALLY?? Isn't that worth knowing before investing 4 x (whatever) on a pitcher that the coach can see is clearly illegal??

[AlwaysImprove]

The pitching rules are not that hard to follow. Every coach has access to them and should have read them. They all know, or at least should know their pitchers are illegal and should be making them work on being legal in practice. Waiting for it to be called during a game and then giving the umpire crap about it is a big load of BS.

Just did an exposure tournament this past weekend and we were instructed not to call any IP, just to inform the coach of what the pitchers were doing wrong. Saw stepping on with hands together, stepping back off plate with stride foot, stepping forward with push off foot, double touching etc. Every coach more or less blew off the comments and said they had never been called before. Rest assured they will do nothing in practice to correct the problems and the next umpire that does call it will pay the price.

Not calling IP's at an exposure tournament makes some sense. It is already a made up scenario designed to give kids a chance to be seen in the best light.

So that is where I have a problem. I call IP's in exposure tournaments, too. Here is what I am thinking (and what college coaches have told me!!):

"Give kids a chance to be seen in the best light". Does that only apply to pitchers? What about the batters that want to be seen? Do they have to face blatently illegal pitches that are ignored because we "don't call" illegal pitches? I was chastised at the LV JO Classic when a pitcher stepped (a minimum!!) of one foot outside the 24" lane, and I called that illegal until she got CLOSE!! That is a rule because batters are at a severe disadvantage when it is ignored. Hint: It isn't a screwball if you have to step outside the 24 to do crossfire that doesn't break!!

Secondarily, most college coaches I know want it called; even at exposure tournaments. They want to see if the pitcher can make the necessary adjustment!! BS on "do it until it is called", that doesn't help the college coach at all if you are told not to call it!! They want to see what happens when it is (inevitably!!) called; CAN SHE PITCH LEGALLY?? Isn't that worth knowing before investing 4 x (whatever) on a pitcher that the coach can see is clearly illegal??

OK, think of it this way. You are the TD. Hoping to build up your little showcase tournament. You do OK at it, but always 2 or 3 teams and you will loose money rather than make money.

Now you have some umpire calling IP"s on teams. Those teams not going to show up next year. Do you want that umpire to be strict in calling IP's? Yeah, a blatant violation, sure that should be called. But get picky at an exposure tournament you are going to loose teams.

The whole thing is a made up scenario anyway. We always always always tell batters to swing at anything close. Coaches do not care about their eye, they care about kids that can get the ball into play strong. You see a number of umpires that tighten the zone on pitchers until there are three balls. You see way more full counts in exposure ball than you would see in normal ball.

If coaches really wanted to see what a kid can "really" do in a "real" world scenario, they would stop showing up at the dog and pony exposure shows and only show up at real tournaments, tournaments with winners. Five coaches could change the entire system by announcing they will only show up at competitive tournaments. If that is what they wanted to see, they would be seeing it.

[MTR]

OK, think of it this way. You are the TD. Hoping to build up your little showcase tournament. You do OK at it, but always 2 or 3 teams and you will loose money rather than make money.

Now you have some umpire calling IP"s on teams. Those teams not going to show up next year. Do you want that umpire to be strict in calling IP's? Yeah, a blatant violation, sure that should be called. But get picky at an exposure tournament you are going to loose teams.

The whole thing is a made up scenario anyway. We always always always tell batters to swing at anything close. Coaches do not care about their eye, they care about kids that can get the ball into play strong. You see a number of umpires that tighten the zone on pitchers until there are three balls. You see way more full counts in exposure ball than you would see in normal ball.

If coaches really wanted to see what a kid can "really" do in a "real" world scenario, they would stop showing up at the dog and pony exposure shows and only show up at real tournaments, tournaments with winners. Five coaches could change the entire system by announcing they will only show up at competitive tournaments. If that is what they wanted to see, they would be seeing it.

Do not disagree. However, if that is the sole premise, why use a game format? Just have a combine-type set up. Hit, field, catch and throw on a predetermined schedule. That would have players and families hundreds of dollars in a weekend and the coaches would know if the basics are there. It is a controlled environment where every player is going to get an equal number of opportunities and there are no efforts to be wasted.

Now the coach knows the players can master the basics, they will see their competitive nature and live game abilities at the tournaments they already attend on top of the showcases.

[AlwaysImprove]

Combines are poorly attended by coaches. Suzy always smashes shots off of pitching machines. Very hard to have pitchers that can pitch effective batting practice.

From my perspective, how we got to where we are now is:
1) Parents refuse to put their players on large roster teams as they are sensitive to play time issues.
2) Parents would sometimes shut down a major team. Since rosters were 11 or 12 players, you only had to get 3 or 4 players to agree to enact a shutdown. Typically this is 9-12 players on the roster.
3) Major orgs really want to run large rosters to mitigate the risk of being steered around by the bottom of the roster. 18 kids and 3 or 4 leave, no one going to notice.
4) No way major org can run large roster, unless they give those lower on the roster something. So they invent and push exposure tournament concept. Where they can not play the kids that are down the bench, and not play already signed kids.

This is circling back around a bit. Rosters are going back to smaller sizes. Bottom of the roster parents are not so quick to buddy up and shut a team down. You are seeing orgs keep two teams of players, if some parents decide to leave they can pull players up.

The firecrackers are now offering competitive tournaments during college recruiting times.