Drop 3rd strike...

[softballjunky12]

Please school me... in my DD's JH game yesterday, I saw a batter run on a drop third strike w/ the first based occupied. When questioned by the coach, umpired said, "occupied base rule doesn't apply when there are two outs". Is that true? Can't recall seeing that in TB... confused!

[JEL]

That is true.

It is true in all codes, HS, travel, college pro-ball and so on. However, some rec leagues don't use the rule at all.

[wadeintothem]

one of the oldest rules in both baseball and softball.. probably 100 years old.. and coaches still question it..

[anonlooker]

Well who gets credited with a putout on a K?

[Skarp]

one of the oldest rules in both baseball and softball.. probably 100 years old.. and coaches still question it..

Strangely, not everyone has been coaching the game for 100 years. Or 100 days. Like it or not, one of the reasons you get paid is to teach coaches and players the rules of the game.

Which coincidentally is the reason we tolerate you around here too.

[JEL]

one of the oldest rules in both baseball and softball.. probably 100 years old.. and coaches still question it..

Strangely, not everyone has been coaching the game for 100 years. Or 100 days. Like it or not, one of the reasons you get paid is to teach coaches and players the rules of the game.

Which coincidentally is the reason we tolerate you around here too.

Actually Skarp, we are not paid to "teach coaches and players the rules of the game." That would be a conflict because we would then be coaching. We are paid to enforce the rules fairly and correctly. Most of us though are always happy to discuss rulings (calmly of course) with coaches and players either on or off the field. During a game however, an Umpire must use caution in discussions. Any info given that is not a direct answer to a question could be perceived as giving an advantage to one team.

[Skarp]

one of the oldest rules in both baseball and softball.. probably 100 years old.. and coaches still question it..

Strangely, not everyone has been coaching the game for 100 years. Or 100 days. Like it or not, one of the reasons you get paid is to teach coaches and players the rules of the game.

Which coincidentally is the reason we tolerate you around here too.

Actually Skarp, we are not paid to "teach coaches and players the rules of the game." That would be a conflict because we would then be coaching. We are paid to enforce the rules fairly and correctly. Most of us though are always happy to discuss rulings (calmly of course) with coaches and players either on or off the field. During a game however, an Umpire must use caution in discussions. Any info given that is not a direct answer to a question could be perceived as giving an advantage to one team.

Agreed, but that's not inconsistent with my comment. When you enforce a rule (any rule), and a coach or player questions you about it, do you explain the rule and its application (at least cursorily) or do you say "I've made my call, discussion over"? With every good ump I've seen, it's the former.

So while you might not expressly earn your paycheck for teaching the rules of the game, in practical fact that is part of the value you provide for the money that you earn. That's the point I'm making.

[MTR]

When you enforce a rule (any rule), and a coach or player questions you about it, do you explain the rule and its application (at least cursorily) or do you say "I've made my call, discussion over"? With every good ump I've seen, it's the former.

Depends on the situation. If it is about the judgment side of the call, no discussion necessary. If a rule issue, I will tell the coach why I made the ruling in question, but I'm not going to stand in the middle of the field an give a mini-clinic. If the coach wants to question my interpretation, I do not hesitate to invite the coach to play the game under protest.

So while you might not expressly earn your paycheck for teaching the rules of the game, in practical fact that is part of the value you provide for the money that you earn. That's the point I'm making.

The field is not the place for teaching. As is the responsibility of an umpire to learn the rules, so is it the responsibility of the coach. I know you have seen me post this before, but I open up my state clinics to anyone. When I address youth or adult league meetings, I invite them to the rules clinic and will even open our state mechanics school (for the volunteer umpires). There is no charge for the clinic and a nominal charge for the school to defray cost of equipment and insurance. In more than seven years, I have had one, ONE youth volunteer attend the school and none attend a clinic. The youth organization paid for five to attend, but the four others thought it was more important to rake and weed the field that day. The only requests of these folks is that they understand the events they are attending are meant for umpires with some sort of experience and the manner in which scenarios are addressed. I ask them to record any questions they have and someone from the staff will address them privately. That avoids any fear of looking poorly in front of umpires with which they will have to interact down the road.

Many of the youth organizations would love a clinic, but they want a private clinic. With all due respect to those who volunteer their time to these organizations, it is too much to ask of the state umpire staff to give numerous private clinics. These folks are as much a volunteer to the game as the parents of the players are to their daughters. They do not receive compensation for their time or efforts to the clinics or schools. That means members of the staff literally incur a cost to help educate others. They do it for the love of the game and don't stop just because their daughter has moved on to the next level which, unfortunately, happens too often to youth organizations.

[Martin]

Is this board a place where umpires can teach a little? If so, perhaps we can cut the people who haven't been coaching for 100 years a little slack when they ask a question.

[MTR]

Is this board a place where umpires can teach a little? If so, perhaps we can cut the people who haven't been coaching for 100 years a little slack when they ask a question.

I'm sorry, did I move out of the US and not realize it? I didn't realize you were the opinion fairy.

Skarp voiced an opinion and perception. I posted an opinion from a different angle. If you have a problem with that, you may feel more comfortable in China. I understand they are accepting emigrants.