What's the call???? Need you opinions.

[wadeintothem]

Here's the relevance we ponder this call all weekend and saw how it could be used to a teams advantage if it was correct. The runner left legally at least from a timing perspective.

However how would you call this:

Pitcher winds up and goes through her motion as she's preparing to deliver the ball she flips it forward into her own glove (just like they do in some warm ups) the ball leaves her hand and travels say 12 inches and she essential becomes her own catcher. She now has the advantage on any base runner.

Do you still have a legal pitch?

Do you now have the LBR in effect immediately as the pitcher has the ball in the circle?

What is the difference between the two situations? other then intentional/unintentional and even if it's intentional what rule would be in effect if any.

So with some practice it could be used as a pitch out to your self. It should not be legal.

A pitch out to yourself is not legal, that would be an illegal pitch. The mistake being made is confining thinking in terms of analyzing a play. You can look at a play without self imposed blinders, but with judgment and rule accordingly. Rule 6 -3 is essentially clarified by section 11, which states if the pitcher drops the ball, its live. It's not a loop hole to the pitching regulations and judgment would be applied to determine IP or dropped ball.

[txfpcoach]

So what rule would the "self pitch out" fall under

saying the motion was normal until the release, there was a follow through with the wrist moving forward and the feet going forward, ball propelled forward and simply caught 12 inches infront of the hip.

[wadeintothem]

So what rule would the "self pitch out" fall under

saying the motion was normal until the release, there was a follow through with the wrist moving forward and the feet going forward, ball propelled forward and simply caught 12 inches infront of the hip.

You must deliver the ball to the batter. There is no getting around it. I'm not big on the "what if the ball lands on the home run fence and splits in half and one piece goes on one side and the other goes...".

If a pitcher fails to legally deliver the ball to the batter, it is an illegal pitch. The rule is simple and its the first rule of legal delivery. Obviously a pitcher preventing delivery of a pitch is an IP.

The exception to that is if the pitcher drops the ball, it is not an IP.

[txfpcoach]

For the sake of understanding if she just goes through a motion and then drops the ball at her side she can pick it up and have the advantage, LBR immediately in effect how has she delivered it to the batter. There's nothing saying the slip or drop has to be unintentional.

For those of you who work on the rules and have some say perhaps it should be required that the ball be delivered to the batter and at a minimium the ball should have to leave the pitching circle or an illegal pitch is called that way the ball has to go atleast 8 feet.

[Ace]

You did say that this was ten and under right? I think thats what you said. Teach your girls how to slide by, defend 1st and third situations, catchers how to block, middle infielders how to take throwdowns, outfielders how to crow hop, how to dive, creat throwing lanes, how to round bases, proper angles, how to frame pitches, backhand, relays, who you want taking the cut on any certain play, how to transfer signs, slapping, sac bunt, sneeky bunt, hitting, catching, throwing. Ya know? Get over it. If you spend thirty seconds on teaching your 10 year old pitcher how to "sell" an illigal pitch to look like a legal pitch to MAYBE back pick a runner leading off, your nuts. Your nuts, or you have the best 10u team in the country that has loads of extra time on your hands. While your at it, teach your pitcher how to throw a wild pitch that will rebound to the plate perfectly when you have a runner on third.
Im just saying

[txfpcoach]

We aren't looking to teach it I want to be able to site a rule that says it's illegal. Unfortanetly at 10U we already see most of the 'trick plays". Third Ball steal, Leave the field on 2 outs to tag a runner etc.. Sorry you took this as a how to get away with something post rather then a rules clarification ACE. Of all the umpires we talked to this weekend each had there own call on the original play.

[wadeintothem]

We aren't looking to teach it I want to be able to site a rule that says it's illegal. Unfortanetly at 10U we already see most of the 'trick plays". Third Ball steal, Leave the field on 2 outs to tag a runner etc.. Sorry you took this as a how to get away with something post rather then a rules clarification ACE. Of all the umpires we talked to this weekend each had there own call on the original play.

I gave you the rule and the citation. The rule book CLEARLY states a dropped ball is a live ball and runners can advance at their own risk.

The rule book is admittedly not so perfectly crystal clear on a "self pitch out" (although to me clear, its not specifically spelled out and addressed)... but thats not what happened in your play anyway, nor is it what you are ever likely to see, so the thread is moving towards an "what if a ufo was hovering and a ball bounced off it" type discussion and... moot. For your play, it is right there in black and white.

IMO, in terms of your original play, its case closed. Good ruling on the field and a done deal.

[Sam]

We aren't looking to teach it I want to be able to site a rule that says it's illegal. Unfortanetly at 10U we already see most of the 'trick plays". Third Ball steal, Leave the field on 2 outs to tag a runner etc.. Sorry you took this as a how to get away with something post rather then a rules clarification ACE. Of all the umpires we talked to this weekend each had there own call on the original play.

Wade and MTR are right. Its not illegal....at 10U its just cute.

[Ace]

We aren't looking to teach it I want to be able to site a rule that says it's illegal. Unfortanetly at 10U we already see most of the 'trick plays". Third Ball steal, Leave the field on 2 outs to tag a runner etc.. Sorry you took this as a how to get away with something post rather then a rules clarification ACE. Of all the umpires we talked to this weekend each had there own call on the original play.

Just seemed like your "what ifs" were leaning toward looking for a loophole. Thats all.

[anonlooker]

"what if a ufo was hovering and a ball bounced off it" type discussion and...

I'd be careful bringing UFO's into this conversation!
Or on this board, for that matter!!