Batter Our or Not

[Comp]

Still being in the box does not determine the status of the player as a batter or a batter/runner. If the player has completed their turn at bat, be it by hitting the ball, dropped third strike etc they become a batter/runner regardless of their position in or out of the batters box.

[MTR]

Still being in the box does not determine the status of the player as a batter or a batter/runner. If the player has completed their turn at bat, be it by hitting the ball, dropped third strike etc they become a batter/runner regardless of their position in or out of the batters box.

Agree. If the ball has been put into play and the player has started his/her advance toward 1B, I think that player has met the definition of a BR.

I agree it can become a sticky situation, and it isn't always that easy to make such a decision in .1 seconds. But I believe the umpire will recognize a BR when s/he sees it.

[AlwaysImprove]

Still being in the box does not determine the status of the player as a batter or a batter/runner. If the player has completed their turn at bat, be it by hitting the ball, dropped third strike etc they become a batter/runner regardless of their position in or out of the batters box.

Agree. If the ball has been put into play and the player has started his/her advance toward 1B, I think that player has met the definition of a BR.

I agree it can become a sticky situation, and it isn't always that easy to make such a decision in .1 seconds. But I believe the umpire will recognize a BR when s/he sees it.

The one that drives straight down off the bat into the batters leg is easy, foul ball, runner never established a movement towards first. The one that squibs up 1b line and four steps up the line the runner hits the ball is also easy, Batter-Runner is out INT.

It is the one that bounces hard, goes up in the air and the slapper runs into the ball, like half a step from point of contact. Are we saying that by rule that should be an out? She is clearly running towards 1b, but I guess in the case of the slap, the momentum of their swing can be seen as carrying through the ball, and then still part of the swing.

I like MTR's description, it is a bit of a sticky situation, and umps and others will recognize a BR when they see it. It is definitely consistent within the rules when you read them. I am just amazed at how many umps I see make this call, point at the batters feet and yell "She was in the box, Foul Ball!". I know I have even seen WCWS umpires pointing at the batters feet, while making this call, which I took to clearly mean the position of the feet were some relevant part of the call.

I will actually laugh at first coach that tries to point out to a blue that foot position in the box does not matter. That will be definitely be one of 'those' conversations.

[smith840]

I will actually laugh at first coach that tries to point out to a blue that foot position in the box does not matter. That will be definitely be one of 'those' conversations.[/quote]

Looking forward to that 'conversation.'

[MTR]

I like MTR's description, it is a bit of a sticky situation, and umps and others will recognize a BR when they see it. It is definitely consistent within the rules when you read them. I am just amazed at how many umps I see make this call, point at the batters feet and yell "She was in the box, Foul Ball!". I know I have even seen WCWS umpires pointing at the batters feet, while making this call, which I took to clearly mean the position of the feet were some relevant part of the call.

I will actually laugh at first coach that tries to point out to a blue that foot position in the box does not matter. That will be definitely be one of 'those' conversations.

Would it be easier if defined the same as a discarded bat and INT? If the ball hits the player it is foul, if the player hits the ball it's INT.

[AlwaysImprove]

I like MTR's description, it is a bit of a sticky situation, and umps and others will recognize a BR when they see it. It is definitely consistent within the rules when you read them. I am just amazed at how many umps I see make this call, point at the batters feet and yell "She was in the box, Foul Ball!". I know I have even seen WCWS umpires pointing at the batters feet, while making this call, which I took to clearly mean the position of the feet were some relevant part of the call.

I will actually laugh at first coach that tries to point out to a blue that foot position in the box does not matter. That will be definitely be one of 'those' conversations.

Would it be easier if defined the same as a discarded bat and INT? If the ball hits the player it is foul, if the player hits the ball it's INT.

I was way excited to see your first description. You know when a batter becomes a batter-runner, because they are no longer a batter. Yes, it is even more clear stating that the ball hits the player, foul, player hits ball INT.

Right now, 99.9998% of softball community rule this wrong. With you and comp being the only ones in the 0.0002%.

Part of the problem is the language in the definition of batter-runner is not clear. Part of the problem is that definitions are typically nouns/static. A Ball is ..., A Player is..., A Batter is ..., etc. The playing rules is typically where you see the verb/action stuff. When a ball strikes an object it becomes a dead ball, When a player is tagged they are put-out, etc. Here we have a verb/action happening in the definitions.

Since the rules were not clear what was going on, everyone contrived this 'in the box' 'out of the box' concept. Leaving the box happens to be very close to batter to batter-runner transition. So it works vast majority of the time and it is now generally believed to be the correct approach to this ruling.

Yes, moving to "If the ball hits the player it is foul, if the player hits the ball it's INT." language would greatly help.

I just can't believe it. I have looked in the book in detail like 30 times, trying to figure out how people are determining this "out of the box" concept. And trying to figure out how/when a batter becomes a batter-runner, and it has been so obvious for so long. I thought I was loosing my mind.

Thanks a ton for explaining this.