Had two minor issues come up over the weekend during a tournament here in NorCal.
1. During the equipment check prior to the game, one of the umpires was commenting that the screws on the face mask did not have a gel coating??? That we should double check with the retailer and or Manufacturer. He was saying something to the effect that some dealers will send sub standard screws??? These were brand new helmets and face masks with new packaging from what I presume is a reputable dealer from SoCal. I've been buying from them for years. I don't get what he was saying about the screws. Does anyone have any insight on this???
2. Time Limit Rule- As we all know, Tournaments throughout the state have different time limit rules. Sometime in any given tournament, additional rules regarding time will be mentioned. My question to all of you is this, the umpire is ultimately responsible for keeping time, but do they have an obligation to mention to both coaches when time is about to expire? I would think a coach should be ultimately responsible and aware of time by asking the umpire himself about it.
3.Time Limit Scenario- Game is about to end, top of the 5th, Team A is losing by 2 runs. Game is chugging along and then Umpire calls game because of established time limit. Team A Coach is upset because he's saying they should at least allow the top half of the inning to finish because umpire failed to notify both teams that game time will be expiring soon. Also mentioned this was not a "Drop Dead" tournament. Who's right?? How are ASA umpires trained to handle these tournaments that have all these different time limit rules?? In this particular scenario, let's say that all pool play and single elimination games will be 85 minutes. That's it, no other additional information provided other than full ASA rules.
The Umpire Corner
1. Far as I know no ruleset dictate "gel coat" on screw heads. Sounds like it was a heads up not a rules issue, FWIW smile and nod.
2. Umpire should inform coaches of any special rules in pre-game. Not required but should. Umpire should inform both dugouts of the start time at beginning of game, after that umpire is final say on time and not responsible to give updates on times to both teams, but it's reasonable late in a game to expect an umpire to announce at the start of the last (or nearly last inning) how much time is remaining.)
3. Sounds like disagreement of "special" time rules enforcement which does happen and is another reason to clarify in pre-game. It's okay to ask the umpire in pre-game if your understanding of the special rules and his is the same. If your looking for a ruling on your specific time rules you need to talk to your tournament director and/or the tournament UIC. Anything deviating from a ruleset is there pervue.
2. Umpire should inform coaches of any special rules in pre-game. Not required but should. Umpire should inform both dugouts of the start time at beginning of game, after that umpire is final say on time and not responsible to give updates on times to both teams, but it's reasonable late in a game to expect an umpire to announce at the start of the last (or nearly last inning) how much time is remaining.)
3. Sounds like disagreement of "special" time rules enforcement which does happen and is another reason to clarify in pre-game. It's okay to ask the umpire in pre-game if your understanding of the special rules and his is the same. If your looking for a ruling on your specific time rules you need to talk to your tournament director and/or the tournament UIC. Anything deviating from a ruleset is there pervue.
- SnocatzDad
- Posts: 514
- Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:04 am
Speaking ASA
Unless there was a sharp edge or burr on the screws, as long as they are properly inserted and holding the mask in place as designed, there should be no issue. This may be a local or personal issue, but nothing in the rules
That would be a local or tournament director issue, nothing in the rule book. As an umpire, I try to give both teams a heads up 5-10 minutes out.
By rule, a new inning begins upon the execution of the 3rd out of the previous half-inning. Therefore, if there was time on the clock when the 4th ended, the 5th has already started. However, it seems like the inning may already have started anyway, so it should be allowed to finish........under normal circumstances.
A time limit is not a rule the umpire should have to deal with, but it often ends up in their lap. Because time limits are a local issue, this question should go to the TD. Since the tournament establishes them, it is not unusual for the umpire to receive direction from them when it comes time to apply them. So, not knowing if the umpire may have been instructed to end the game, cannot really tell you who was right or wrong.
cencal wrote:
1. During the equipment check prior to the game, one of the umpires was commenting that the screws on the face mask did not have a gel coating??? That we should double check with the retailer and or Manufacturer. He was saying something to the effect that some dealers will send sub standard screws??? These were brand new helmets and face masks with new packaging from what I presume is a reputable dealer from SoCal. I've been buying from them for years. I don't get what he was saying about the screws. Does anyone have any insight on this???
Unless there was a sharp edge or burr on the screws, as long as they are properly inserted and holding the mask in place as designed, there should be no issue. This may be a local or personal issue, but nothing in the rules
2. Time Limit Rule- As we all know, Tournaments throughout the state have different time limit rules. Sometime in any given tournament, additional rules regarding time will be mentioned. My question to all of you is this, the umpire is ultimately responsible for keeping time, but do they have an obligation to mention to both coaches when time is about to expire? I would think a coach should be ultimately responsible and aware of time by asking the umpire himself about it.
That would be a local or tournament director issue, nothing in the rule book. As an umpire, I try to give both teams a heads up 5-10 minutes out.
3.Time Limit Scenario- Game is about to end, top of the 5th, Team A is losing by 2 runs. Game is chugging along and then Umpire calls game because of established time limit. Team A Coach is upset because he's saying they should at least allow the top half of the inning to finish because umpire failed to notify both teams that game time will be expiring soon. Also mentioned this was not a "Drop Dead" tournament. Who's right?? How are ASA umpires trained to handle these tournaments that have all these different time limit rules?? In this particular scenario, let's say that all pool play and single elimination games will be 85 minutes. That's it, no other additional information provided other than full ASA rules.
By rule, a new inning begins upon the execution of the 3rd out of the previous half-inning. Therefore, if there was time on the clock when the 4th ended, the 5th has already started. However, it seems like the inning may already have started anyway, so it should be allowed to finish........under normal circumstances.
A time limit is not a rule the umpire should have to deal with, but it often ends up in their lap. Because time limits are a local issue, this question should go to the TD. Since the tournament establishes them, it is not unusual for the umpire to receive direction from them when it comes time to apply them. So, not knowing if the umpire may have been instructed to end the game, cannot really tell you who was right or wrong.
- MTR
- Posts: 2317
- Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 5:21 am
Is that 85 minutes drop dead..., or finish the inning? If it's drop dead, do we finish the batter, only finish the batter if it could affect the score, finish this batter and two more, score stands, score reverts back to last completed inning, or...or...or....
Even your simple example raises more questions....not trying to be a smart-a**, just trying to point out that time limits on a softball game often create more issues than they prevent.
In my neighborhood, most of the umpires carry a battery operated kitchen timer for time limit games. It is set to the prescribed time limit for the game and hung on the backstop for anybody to be able to check how much time is left. I understand this is frowned upon in some other areas.
If I am umpiring a time limit game, I will make an effort to let both coaches know how much time is remaining as we are nearing the limit. ASA rules really don't address the mechanics of time limits other than to say they should start with the first pitch. That is left up to each individual TD as to how s/he wants to administer his/her tournament.
Even your simple example raises more questions....not trying to be a smart-a**, just trying to point out that time limits on a softball game often create more issues than they prevent.
In my neighborhood, most of the umpires carry a battery operated kitchen timer for time limit games. It is set to the prescribed time limit for the game and hung on the backstop for anybody to be able to check how much time is left. I understand this is frowned upon in some other areas.
If I am umpiring a time limit game, I will make an effort to let both coaches know how much time is remaining as we are nearing the limit. ASA rules really don't address the mechanics of time limits other than to say they should start with the first pitch. That is left up to each individual TD as to how s/he wants to administer his/her tournament.
- ajaywill
- Posts: 121
- Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 1:00 pm
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