proper mechanics?

[broadband]

After the offensive coach started complaining that the umpire didnt call time, the "Trainer" came on the field and over ruled the guy at third base and they called her safe.

Whhaattt!!!! A 'person' not officiating a game, came on a overruled the Umpire 'ON' the field? Sorry, training or not, that isn't right. Only person who overrules me on a field is when a protest is made for a 'RULE' violation, not a judgement, and/or a UIC makes a ruling, or GOD. This sounds entirely like a judgement issue that the BU caught the runner off the bag on the transition in which it would be a good 'judgement' call. Sounds like someone needs to be pulled from the 'training' program. Sheesh.

[MTR]

Points to be made:

After his explanation, I asked him who asked for time, knowing full well nobody asked for time.

An umpire can kill the play anytime they believe it is necessary. A request is not necessary.

Whhaattt!!!! A 'person' not officiating a game, came on a overruled the Umpire 'ON' the field? Sorry, training or not, that isn't right. Only person who overrules me on a field is when a protest is made for a 'RULE' violation, not a judgement, and/or a UIC makes a ruling, or GOD. This sounds entirely like a judgement issue that the BU caught the runner off the bag on the transition in which it would be a good 'judgement' call. Sounds like someone needs to be pulled from the 'training' program. Sheesh.

Got that out of your system? Good, now go back and read the post. I believe it says "THEY" called her safe.

I agree, suspending play at the end of every play is a SP mechanic and though it should apply to FP, it doesn't. Unless stated to the umpire in a different context involving this umpire's training, it was wrong to offer such direction in the FP game.

Now for the non-umpires on the umpire page. This was a friendly and these are used often in many areas to help train umpires. Often, there is a trade-off between the org/teams and the umpire association. They get umpires at a reduced or no cost in exchange for allowing additional umpire(s) on the field for training purposes which may include a break in the flow of the play for instruction and/or correction. For that matter, it is not unheard of telling a runner to stay on a base (even though she may have "officially" been out) to set-up a particular situation for the purpose of training the umpires.

In some states, the HS athletic assns require such a day for teams and umpires. I would be willing to bet a beer, not a Heineken though, that those three umpires were not all getting paid a full, if any, fee for that game.

If you go into a friendly where umpires are being trained and you want to start arguing calls, you probably should have taken the day off and went fishing.

[broadband]

Read the 1st paragraph, they called her out, then it was overturned by a trainer. Regardless, training, in my opinion, should not be done during a game, friendly or not. If the teams are aware of the situation, then roll with it, and follow up with the field umps after the game on the mistakes. Better yet, video it. If these were new umps, having someone run out on the field to save ur arse doesn't set a good precedence either IMO.

[MTR]

Read the 1st paragraph, they called her out, then it was overturned by a trainer.

Here is the first sentence, which I believe was the OPs follow up to post #1, in which the issue of a training umpire getting involved was first raised:

After the offensive coach started complaining that the umpire didnt call time, the "Trainer" came on the field and over ruled the guy at third base and they called her safe.

This is the sentence to which I was referring.

Regardless, training, in my opinion, should not be done during a game, friendly or not. If the teams are aware of the situation, then roll with it, and follow up with the field umps after the game on the mistakes. Better yet, video it. If these were new umps, having someone run out on the field to save ur arse doesn't set a good precedence either IMO.

I can tell you from experience, this is the best way to help with green umpires. And it isn't a matter of saving anyone's ass, it is a classroom and you use it as such. They have enough going on in their minds and this offers instant feedback with possible correction. You can video all you want, even when some see the video, they do not recall what they were seeing at the time and that can be just as important as what they did or did not do with the play. There is not a better hands-on approach.

We still do this with FP & SP umpires with HS and ASA teams. The state HS assn. mandates such "play days" in multiple sports with all officials expected to work those games and there is no fee.

If it is part of the deal, you live with it. If you have a problem with it as a team, I would understand a reluctance to participate and avoid those types of tournaments, scrimmages, whatever they may be called.

[Sparky Guy]

Now for the non-umpires on the umpire page. This was a friendly and these are used often in many areas to help train umpires. Often, there is a trade-off between the org/teams and the umpire association. They get umpires at a reduced or no cost in exchange for allowing additional umpire(s) on the field for training purposes which may include a break in the flow of the play for instruction and/or correction. For that matter, it is not unheard of telling a runner to stay on a base (even though she may have "officially" been out) to set-up a particular situation for the purpose of training the umpires.

My daughter's college coach used to do exactly that. She would hold a fall tournament in conjunction with a training clinic for umpires who were looking to do NCAA games. She got free umpiring for the tournament and the teams all worked with them while they rotated multiple crews in and out of the games. Everyone knew what was going on and there was never a problem. The evaluators never overturned a call and the crews figured out any problems on their own. If they made a mistake the evaluators corrected them after they came off of the field.

It's a win-win situation for everyone involved.

[WarriorFan]

Wouldn't it be better if incorrect calls were changed immediately on the field? Isn't that the same as a coach asking umpire to ask their partner if they saw the same thing?

[MTR]

Wouldn't it be better if incorrect calls were changed immediately on the field? Isn't that the same as a coach asking umpire to ask their partner if they saw the same thing?

It's situational. Sparky Guy was referring to experienced umpires looking to move up to the collegiate level. The calls should be relatively correct as this type of "clinic" is focused more on mechanics.

When training new umpires, there is a higher possibility of an erroneous call. When a call is changed at that point, it can be just as important the team understands the correct ruling as the newbie. It is much more impressionable to physically move an umpire at the time of the action than it is if you wait until the end of the half-inning or game and hope they remember the circumstances. I have found in the past, that if you wait to correct, you may end up with a group the resembles bobble-head dolls in nodding yes. It is difficult for someone new to absorb everything they need to know in a compact time.

I guess I should clarify that when referring to "changing calls", I'm not talking about judgment calls, but something where a rule is involved.

[vcblue]

Let play finish and call time. This isn't a game of got-yas, but in most cases it is a timed game. So help speed things along an get on to the next pitch.

[GIMNEPIWO]

Let play finish and call time. This isn't a game of got-yas, but in most cases it is a timed game. So help speed things along an get on to the next pitch.

Disagree ... This is FP not SP ... Ball is live, no injuries, no reason to call time ( unless requested and warranted ) ... R1 should have maintained contact with the base, if she was unable to or needed to get the dirt out of her eyes or pants she needs to request time ... Suppose the ball is thrown back to F1 and she misses it ? Are you going to call time to get to the next pitch ?

[MTR]

Disagree ... This is FP not SP ... Ball is live, no injuries, no reason to call time ( unless requested and warranted ) ... R1 should have maintained contact with the base, if she was unable to or needed to get the dirt out of her eyes or pants she needs to request time ... Suppose the ball is thrown back to F1 and she misses it ? Are you going to call time to get to the next pitch ?

Under the present rules you are correct. However, it is a myth that FP is any more of a "live ball" game than SP.