DP/Flex and use of Courtesy Runners

[tonywold]

Question 1:

We only have 10 players and may only want to bat 9 using the DP/Flex but this would leave us with no one on the bench. Since we have no "bench" ie...no subs who have not entered the game can we use the courtesy runner rules that are allowed for pitcher and catcher using the girl who made the last out since we do not have anyone "not in the game??

Both the pitcher and catcher bat so they are not the DP or flex in this case.


Question 2:

Assuming we bat 9 instead and have our one sub be the courtesy runner for the catcher and then later in the game sub her for our RF would we use the original RF who is out of the game as courtesy runner for the catcher since she is currently "not in the game"


Question 3:

Based upon number 2. We use our one sub for courtesy for catcher and now have no bench left may we now use last out as courtesy runner for the pitcher.


Thanks for the answers as we are trying to stretch the options of a limited roster in lieu of having to bat round robbin to be able to use courtesy runners for our only catcher and pitcher on the roster (they get a bit tired on hot days going 3 games each)

[Fredegar]

The following applies only to ASA, not other orgs. If you're talking about friendlies or Rec All-Star Tourneys, you'd need to talk to the Tourney Director at those functions about using "last-out" as CR.

According to ASA Rule 8-10-C, the Courtesy Runner cannot have participated in the game in any other capacity.

Question 1: No, the "last out" cannot be used as a courtesy runner, in ASA.
Question 2: No, your original RF cannot be used as a courtesy runner, in ASA.
Question 3: No. (see Question 1)

As you may already know, you cannot use the same CR for both pitcher and catcher. Also, if you are running for your pitcher, and you change pitchers, the CR would then only be eligible to run for the current pitcher.

[Comp]

Question 1, no, a courtesy runner must be a player who has not yet participated in the game. If you only have 10 players and you use the dp/flex, all 10 players are participating.

Question 2, again, no, once a player has participated in the game, they cannot be a courtesy runner.

Question 3, no, see answers to both 1 & 2. A courtesy runner must be a player who has not yet participated in the game.

[tonywold]

Thank you for the quick reply. Based upon this ruling, our best option looks to be to bat round robin 10 for all games, which then would allow us to use the courtesy runner option of last out.

Another question on this ruling.

We bat catcher and pitcher 4-5. Catcher hits a single, we use courtesy runner #3 who was last out. Pitcher comes up and hits a triple scoring courtesy runner. Since this was round robbin we bring back last out to run for pitcher. PU agreed this was correct but other manager questioned ruling and just clarifying that we did it right since the courtesy runner scored on back to back pitches.

[Crabby_Bob]

Some tournaments will let you choose between "bat the roster" or "bat 9 or DP/Flex".

First, an available substitute is a player who has not yet been placed in the lineup, that is, slots 1 through 9 (or 10 if using DP/Flex) in the lineup.

If you "bat the roster", you use whatever the local tournament rules are for courtesy runners. Typically, this is the "last out".

If you "bat 9" or use "DP/Flex" you must have an available substitute to be able to use a courtesy runner. If you have only one available substitute, you are limited to a courtesy runner for only the pitcher or catcher position, not both. You need two available substitutes to be able to CR for both the pitcher and catcher. Under "bat 9" or "DP/Flex", the "last out" is meaningless in terms of who is eligible to be a courtesy runner.

[Comp]

What ever rule set you are playing under is not ASA. Without knowing what rules set you are using cant answer your question if it was correct or not. ASA does not allow last out as courtesy runner, and same courtesy runner cannot be used for both pitcher and catcher.

[Fredegar]

We bat catcher and pitcher 4-5. Catcher hits a single, we use courtesy runner #3 who was last out. Pitcher comes up and hits a triple scoring courtesy runner. Since this was round robbin we bring back last out to run for pitcher. PU agreed this was correct but other manager questioned ruling and just clarifying that we did it right since the courtesy runner scored on back to back pitches.

As Comp said, your question can't really be answered without knowing the local rules your tourney is using for "round-robin" and "last-out". However, the most likely scenario is that the rules simply say that the last-out may be used for CRs for pitchers and catchers. If that's true, then you should be allowed to use the same player for both runners, since that player was the "last out" when you needed a CR in each instance.

However, in your scenario, what if your pitcher only hit a single? You already have your "last-out" as CR for catcher. While you might expect it logical to allow the "previous-out" be a CR for the pitcher, there may be nothing in the rules to support that. Best to work that out with the PU or UIC before the game.

[BearFlagFan]

Question 1:
Assuming we bat 9 instead and have our one sub be the courtesy runner for the catcher and then later in the game sub her for our RF would we use the original RF who is out of the game as courtesy runner for the catcher since she is currently "not in the game"

As noted by others, the RF can't become a courtesy runner. But there's another caution under ASA 8-10D - once a sub is a CR, you can't put that sub in as a batter and/or pinch runner later in the same half-inning, unless there was an injury and no other subs were available.

[tcannizzo]

It sounds like this is a friendly or showcase in which teams have the option of batting everyone.

In those cases, the lineup deviation will usually provide for "last batted out" as CR for P or C.

However, it is strictly ASA Championship rules, with only 9 batters allowed, the previous posters have it right.

[tonywold]

One more question on a line up option

We are thinking of having our pitcher be the DP and our LF be the flex, if we have the DP (pitcher) hit and she gets on base can the flex run for her? Does this count as a substitution....ie, could we do this 3 times in one game if the DP made it on base each time?

This would allow us to use our one bench player as a courtesy ru. Er for our catcher and with our pitcher being the DP we can rest other batters one inning each in the field. Would this option follow the rules and not impact our ability to use the DP and Flex all game?