No Batters Box ?

[GIMNEPIWO]

(Snip)
No, it is the difference between an umpire following direction and a GAGA.

OK, What's a GAGA??

Your quote makes it look like I was the GAGA guy ... Not so, and I'm not sure what it is unless :

[MTR]

Fall ball in many places is instructional. 98% of the umpires I have had in Fall ball games are like G, fully aware that there are teachable moments such as these. Its too bad that someone with the game knowledge of MTR doesnt get that this is a golden opportunity to impart that knowledge to those players and parent coaches that dont know 10% of what he does, but are eager to learn and grateful when someone furthers that education.

I've been doing this for more years than many parents on this board have been on this earth. I'm well aware of "fall ball" and instructional moments. Been there, done that, still doing that. However, that does not relieve the umpire from the proper mechanics. It is the coach's job to instruct and take care of the players. It is the umpire's job to officiate the game at hand. Why is it that people think any of that changes during the fall?

Yeah, it's fall ball, but you still hire umpires, keep score and debate/argue calls and rulings. Why would you expect the umpire to work the game differently than for what s/he is hired? If you want an assistant coach, it shouldn't be dependent upon the umpire.

Perhaps MTR hasnt noticed, but respect for blue also increases in these situations.

Hugo, that is what a GAGA is. Someone who goes along to get along. The umpire who wants to be everybody's friend and will ignore the mechanics and rules of the game if it means endearing themsleves to members of a team. That is what these people want. I prefer an umpire remain an umpire and not a part of the game.

Ever work with someone like that?

However, back to the OP. The question was if the umpire was correct and the rule. Asked , answered and just because it doesn't coincide with what others want it to be, being good Americans, they feel the need to attack. Whatever!

[ontheblack]

I never said ignore the rules.

And nobody gives a rats ass how long you have been grousing about on earth.

[Bretman]

No, don't ignore the rules. And in the same vein, don't ignore the accepted umpire mechanics and responsibilities, either. The umpire drawing lines on the field is NOT a taught or accepted mechanic or responsibility.

If I'm going to start scratching lines in the dirt...

What is to prevent the other coach from complaining? I can hear it now..."You didn't mark a line for MY batters! You're giving the other team an advantage!"

Silly? Yes! But I've seen coaches argue about sillier things.

What ensures that me eyeballing a line means the line is going to be dimensionally accurate? There's a reason that the people responsible for getting the field ready have tape measures, templates, chalk spreaders, etc.

If you're an umpire that would scratch out a line, what exactly are you using to lay it out? Your best guesstimate? How confidate are you that your lines are precisely where they should be?

Worse that having no lines is having improperly marked lines.

If the lines aren't laid out, that's on the grounds crew, not the umpires. If they aren't laid out, all of the rules pertaining to the batter's box still apply. And, if they aren't laid out, umpires are instructed to give every benefit of the doubt to the batter, to not nit-pick at borderline infractions and to only enforce these rules on blatantly obvious violations.

If a player asks me where the batter's box should be, I will tell her. The box is seven feet long by three feet wide. It begins six inches away from the side of the plate. It extends four feet forward and three feet back from the center of the plate.

Now, the player has been instructed. She has the exact same parameters to gauge the box as the umpire does, the same parameters for any game where the boxes are not marked out by nice white chalk lines.

[UmpSteve]

The fact that you feel it is beneath you to cut a young player in a fall rec league a little slack just reinforces peoples views that some umpires are so full of themselves that they soil the game for others involved.

Fall ball in many places is instructional. 98% of the umpires I have had in Fall ball games are like G, fully aware that there are teachable moments such as these. Its too bad that someone with the game knowledge of MTR doesnt get that this is a golden opportunity to impart that knowledge to those players and parent coaches that dont know 10% of what he does, but are eager to learn and grateful when someone furthers that education.

Perhaps MTR hasnt noticed, but respect for blue also increases in these situations.

Let's put all this back into the real world.

This thread started with a parent asking what rule applied, and if the umpire should have drawn the line. Remembering this is the UMPIRE CORNER, the question was answered by umpires, noted what rule applied, and all those with substantial experience agreed that the umpire should NOT draw the lines.

Now, members that are NOT umpires choose to insult those with the proper answer that is the accepted industry rule/mechanic/procedure, and want to suggest that knowing the right thing, doing the right thing, and refusing to do the wrong thing is somehow a cause to disrespect that umpire, that doing so "soils the game".

So I ask you,

1) Do you have a written list of what should be ignored, when it should be ignored, and where this list is universally posted?
2) Have you shared this list with iluvblue (Corey Reid), among other coaches, who have posted numerous times how umpires that attempt to instruct his players should mind their own business?
3) Knowledgeable or not, or moderator or not, what exactly qualifies you to disrespect and disregard the proper answers in this forum? If one of us umpires even suggested how you should coach a player, you would have a hissy rage rushing to tell us we don't know anything about how/what you do.
4) Instructional league, teaching moment. Surprise, I get it. Let's start by teaching a) who does what (YOU, coaches and parents, instruct technique, the facility/site provides lines, umpires rule in game situations on proper rules, mechanics, procedures), b) teaching the RIGHT things (not what you think might be best today, but not tomorrow on another field, and c) accepting accountability for WHO HAS FAILED this child (the league for not having lines, the coach for failing the proper technique, and so on). In exactly none of these cases is the umpire responsible to do what you are describing.

So, now, exactly who had been overly full of themselves, and who has generated disrespect from the other side?

[GIMNEPIWO]

I saw a cop last week changing a tire for an elderly woman on the expressway ... What a Pr*ck ! ... It's not his job and why didn't he change my flat ? How does he know the new tire was properly inflated ? What about my spark plugs, oil change, coolant flush ? Where's it gonna end, where do you draw ( not draw in this case ) the line in the sand ? ... HFS!? ... phheww! Only 3 hours til beer o'clock ....

[freetacos]

Steve...read the last line of your avitar.



ft

have a nice day...if that is within the rules of course.

[slapperdad]

Funny note regarding this situation:
We played in a fundraiser tournament about a month ago. We were just playing for a good cause. The Blues even donated a portion or all of their game fees.

So anyway we've got some guy behind the plate who I've never seen before and I at least recognize most of the local guys. At any rate, this guy calls my DD, who's obviously a slapper out for being out of the box. Now, I'm not going to say that she's never out of the box, however this time it wasn't even close, she was in the box. Of course there are no lines, so the first base coach goes down and steps off the lines and uses his foot to make marks in the sand. The umpire's comment, "in 27 years of calling Baseball, that's the longest batters box I've ever seen".

I wasn't about to say anything, this poor guy was struggling and I'm quite sure he was doing the best he could. Sometimes you just have to laugh and go on.

[UmpSteve]

Steve...read the last line of your avitar.



ft

have a nice day...if that is within the rules of course.

So maybe the last line in my post was unnecessary. I don't disagree.

But I didn't start it. Simply calling a spade a spade, and responding with the same level of disrespect after being insulted without just cause.

[AlwaysImprove]

I actually side with MTR on this one. Not the tone, but the outcome. Umpires should resist drawing lines on the field. Maybe you make allowances for rec level and younger ages, but in general not a good idea.

Every time I have ever seen this come up it has been the slapper that is challenging blue with a backhanded approach. Best course of action for a blue in that situation is to completely ignore. Not let it enter into their thought process one way or the other. That is my preference from a blue in this situation.

We were playing 10U and had a slapper that was an experienced slapper for her age. But she had gotten off on her timing a bit and was getting very close to the front of the box.

We were playing in a town that was known for serving up their home cooking but we liked to go into their town, their home turf, and beat them. So the tension was already very high.

Anyway slapper is pretty much out of the box and hits a change up, and we were going to score a load of runs. Blue calls her out, for being out of the box. Next at bat, she comes up with just the most insane amount of attitude. Mugging the ump, she puts on a full show.

Just before first pitch calls timeout. Proceeds to slooowly draw a batters box. Musta taken 8 minutes for her to draw just the perfect batters box. You could physically see blue's blood pressure go to atmospheric levels.

First pitch hit the dirt before it got to the plate. Blue calls strike. For some reason the pitcher did not realize she did not even have to deliver a pitch to get a strike call at that point. Serves up the second pitch, slapper hits into the outfield to drive in the winning runs. Of course she had to pause inside the batters box to make sure blue saw she was not out of the box even after the ball was long gone.