call or advise?

[swells9232]

So I asked a umpire to keep an eye on an illegal pitch, back foot not in contact with rubber, and he tells the short stop to advise her pitcher to fix it.... twice.... how would you react?

[Comp]

How would you react if the opposing coach goaded the umpire into making a call on your pitcher?

If the pitcher was illegal, yes the umpire should have been calling it but bringing it to the umpires attention is typically not going to get you the call. Especially if you did it where everyone knew what you had talked to the umpire about. Also, when you say the umpire told the short stop to talk to the pitcher, it sounds like there was most likely runners on base and the umpire was in C position behind the short stop. When runners are on base, the base umpires primary responsibility is to watch for base runner infractions prior to the pitch. You are not going to get many illegal pitch calls by the base umpire with runners on base in a 2 man umpire system.

[MTR]

Also, when you say the umpire told the short stop to talk to the pitcher, it sounds like there was most likely runners on base and the umpire was in C position behind the short stop. When runners are on base, the base umpires primary responsibility is to watch for base runner infractions prior to the pitch. You are not going to get many illegal pitch calls by the base umpire with runners on base in a 2 man umpire system.

It should also be noted that when off the line, an umpire just does not have a view definitive enough to see the pitcher slightly off the pitcher's PLATE. And there are coaches who will teach their pitchers to take advantage of that at all levels, but often more off the front than back. The effect is more mental game than actual advantage on the pitch as it rarely picks up more than 5-6"

[Battle]

Also, when you say the umpire told the short stop to talk to the pitcher, it sounds like there was most likely runners on base and the umpire was in C position behind the short stop. When runners are on base, the base umpires primary responsibility is to watch for base runner infractions prior to the pitch. You are not going to get many illegal pitch calls by the base umpire with runners on base in a 2 man umpire system.

It should also be noted that when off the line, an umpire just does not have a view definitive enough to see the pitcher slightly off the pitcher's PLATE. And there are coaches who will teach their pitchers to take advantage of that at all levels, but often more off the front than back. The effect is more mental game than actual advantage on the pitch as it rarely picks up more than 5-6"

Are you going to tell the SS to advise the pitcher? C'mon. I can see not calling it because you can't really see it.

[UmpSteve]

So I asked a umpire to keep an eye on an illegal pitch, back foot not in contact with rubber, and he tells the short stop to advise her pitcher to fix it.... twice.... how would you react?

Realistically, don't we need a bit more information? Competitive travel or rec league? Tournament or Showcase? Qualifier or Friendly? 10U rec or 18 Gold travel?

How much "not in contact"? Barely see daylight, after a toe roll, hole in the back, or, fully and obviously off, or pulling the back foot back after starting the windup?

Didn't we have a recent thread where some insisted there was a level where umpires were expected to draw lines for the batters? Doesn't that kind of philosophy play into when/where/if umpires should be urging certain behavior rather than penalizing?

This is absolutely an HTBT (Have To Be There) situation.

[ontheblack]

I dont have an issue with blue telling the SS to talk to the pitcher. You still may be getting into the pitcher's head this way.

[MTR]

Are you going to tell the SS to advise the pitcher? C'mon. I can see not calling it because you can't really see it.

Yes, it is not uncommon for an umpire to inform a player that something may be wrong. As noted, you are not going to see some things from the positions off the lines. Could be, and I suspect more likely, that the umpire is starting to see the pitcher do something that may appear illegal, but cannot be seen, more as a reminder than a "warning".

In the past, umpires were told to take a look at the drag marks when cleaning the PP. It was not uncommon for the umpire to remind the pitcher when she comes out the next half inning to keep a toe in the dirt if the marks didn't support the foot was staying down.