You Make The Call (With video)

[ScubaGuy]

the Umps call was safe at 1st and 3rd with run scoring. Explination was even though she went to the dug out it was confusion. It was a little muddy but we agreed this would be a good case to study since we had it on video

[Bretman]

the Umps call was safe at 1st and 3rd with run scoring. Explination was even though she went to the dug out it was confusion. It was a little muddy but we agreed this would be a good case to study since we had it on video

Ultimately the correct ruling, but that is an odd explanation (of course, we are getting a third-hand account of what the umpire actually said).

Going "to" (or toward) the dugout is not the same as going "in" the dugout. And the fact that a player was "confused" has nothing to do with the rules or the ruling.

It depends on the rule set. In NCAA, the batter-runner is out for abandoning her base. Rule 12.12.5

I started to go there, but since the poster said this was a high school game I assumed they weren't using NCAA rules. The NCAA rule is the same as it is in baseball. No need to actually enter the dugout/dead ball area. If the umpire judges that the runner abandoned the bases, then she's out.

But that is apparently a moot point in this case.

[GIMNEPIWO]

the Umps call was safe at 1st and 3rd with run scoring. Explination was even though she went to the dug out it was confusion. It was a little muddy but we agreed this would be a good case to study since we had it on video

That is where I was going in citing 8-3-6 in a previous post ... Although I thought the Blues (said with no dis-respect) may have called the BR out and had the 'confusion going the other way ; " A runner shall not run the bases in reverse order either to confuse the fielders or make a travesty of the game ."

[MTR]

the Umps call was safe at 1st and 3rd with run scoring. Explination was even though she went to the dug out it was confusion. It was a little muddy but we agreed this would be a good case to study since we had it on video

That is where I was going in citing 8-3-6 in a previous post ... Although I thought the Blues (said with no dis-respect) may have called the BR out and had the 'confusion going the other way ; " A runner shall not run the bases in reverse order either to confuse the fielders or make a travesty of the game ."

That is a very seldom used rule and more often, misused as justification of other actions that have nothing to do with the rule. There are too many variables to comfortably enforce this rule. Shy of a player running the bases in reverse order, waving her arms and screaming, "na na ne na na", good luck applying it.

To start, there needs to be intent shown. To where would the BR be running to confuse the other team? Was she trying to show up the umpire or cause discourse among the participants by going to pick-up the bat and return to the BB? How was doing that making a travesty of the game?

Think you are stretching a little on this one.

[GIMNEPIWO]

the Umps call was safe at 1st and 3rd with run scoring. Explination was even though she went to the dug out it was confusion. It was a little muddy but we agreed this would be a good case to study since we had it on video

That is where I was going in citing 8-3-6 in a previous post ... Although I thought the Blues (said with no dis-respect) may have called the BR out and had the 'confusion going the other way ; " A runner shall not run the bases in reverse order either to confuse the fielders or make a travesty of the game ."

That is a very seldom used rule and more often, misused as justification of other actions that have nothing to do with the rule. There are too many variables to comfortably enforce this rule. Shy of a player running the bases in reverse order, waving her arms and screaming, "na na ne na na", good luck applying it.

To start, there needs to be intent shown. To where would the BR be running to confuse the other team? Was she trying to show up the umpire or cause discourse among the participants by going to pick-up the bat and return to the BB? How was doing that making a travesty of the game?

Think you are stretching a little on this one.

Actually, I wasn't trying to stretch it ... I was thinking of rules that perhaps the Blues ( ) may have mis-applied ... But thanks for the visual of a player running the bases backwards yelling Na Na NA Na NA ....

[bigsig]

Just wondering, why does the BR returning to 1B have to be tagged? If she is returning to a base previously occupied during a live ball appeal, isn't touching the base with the ball enough?

[Comp]

A runner who retreats from a base to which they were forced reinstates the force play and all you need to do is touch the base. However, a batter runner running to 1st base is not a force play since a batter is not "forced" to leave a base.

[Anti-Clone]

Just wondering, why does the BR returning to 1B have to be tagged? If she is returning to a base previously occupied during a live ball appeal, isn't touching the base with the ball enough?

Keep in mind that this isn't an appeal play. They are simply attempting to execute an out on a runner who is off of the base.

Appeals are limited in ASA softball to:

1) Attempting to advance to 2nd base after over-running 1st base;

2) Batting out of order;

3) Missing a base; and

4) Not properly "tagging-up."

NCAA has a few more or broader appeals.

[MTR]

1) Attempting to advance to 2nd base after over-running 1st base;

ASA has really screwed this one up as this is not an appeal play. Though stated as such, it does not meet the definition of an appeal play nor should it be considered as such.

[Anti-Clone]

1) Attempting to advance to 2nd base after over-running 1st base;

ASA has really screwed this one up as this is not an appeal play. Though stated as such, it does not meet the definition of an appeal play nor should it be considered as such.

I agree. It should simply go from "advancing without liability to be put out" to "advancing with liability to be put out."

All it does is take a protected runner and take away her protection.