Slapper HBP

[wgcoop629]

Is it a HBP if a slapper runs into the ball out of the batters box? I have seen several times where a slapper gets hit when running into the ball that appears it would have been a strike if allowed to travel to the plate. Every time it is ruled a HBP.

[tcannizzo]

Not enough information in your question.
Depends on the location of the batter/slapper at the point of contact with the pitch.

a. )If a batter/slapper prevents the pitch from entering the strike zone it is a dead ball strike. This would be an easy call if contact was made directly in front of home plate.

b.) But the better slappers do not cross in front of home plate and take a line of batter's box extended (concept), which would be outside the path that the pitch might take to be a strike, in this case it is HBP.

[wgcoop629]

"a. )If a batter/slapper prevents the pitch from entering the strike zone it is a dead ball strike. This would be an easy call if contact was made directly in front of home plate."

So if it's a breaking pitch (curve by a lefty or screw by a righty) and was just inside the plate when the batter was hit (because the pitch is still breaking to the inside corner and it hasn't made it the plate yet) is it a strike or HBP.

What if it happen to slappers that tend to run at an angle to the front inside corner of the box, and end up getting hit because their front arm is in front of (or real close to being in front of) the plate, even though their whole foot is not out of the batters box.

[tcannizzo]

"a. )If a batter/slapper prevents the pitch from entering the strike zone it is a dead ball strike. This would be an easy call if contact was made directly in front of home plate."

So if it's a breaking pitch (curve by a lefty or screw by a righty) and was just inside the plate when the batter was hit (because the pitch is still breaking to the inside corner and it hasn't made it the plate yet) is it a strike or HBP.

What if it happen to slappers that tend to run at an angle to the front inside corner of the box, and end up getting hit because their front arm is in front of (or real close to being in front of) the plate, even though their whole foot is not out of the batters box.

Simply put, it is the umpire's judgement as to whether the pitch would have entered the strike zone.

Notice that I qualified it with "contact directly in front of home plate" which would be an easy call. Meaning that if NOT directly in front of home plate, the call becomes more difficult.

When it comes to curve/screw balls, the question becomes how far do they break? Depends on the pitcher but 4-6 inches would be an amazing pitch, even for Ray-Ray.

As for whether the whole foot is out of the batter's box, that doesn't have any bearing on HPB. And for that matter, both batter's feet may be ENTIRELY inside the batter's box, but by leaning over can interfere with a pitch entering the strike zone.

[UmpSteve]

First, any time a pitched ball contacts a batter (any part, including the HANDS), it is a HBP, and a dead ball. No matter where or how. But I don't think that is really your question; I suspect you are more concerned with the result of the HBP, which can be a dead ball strike, a dead ball ball, an awarded base, or (in NCAA only) a "no pitch".

To clarify, tcannizzo's response presumes you are asking about ASA or NFHS. In those rulesets, the umpire can judge if a pitch was going to be a strike; if so, the result is a dead ball strike. In NCAA, any pitched ball that contacts a batter that is out of the front of the batter's box (YES, one foot on the ground and fully outside the batter's box, same as hit by batted ball) is a "no pitch", as well as a bruise.

The second part is that even if the umpire judges the pitch was going to NOT be a strike, the result can be a dead ball ball, or a base award. If the umpire judges the batter's movement put her in a place where she wouldn't have been hit had she not moved (in other words, made SURE she was hit), that is the result; a dead ball ball. That will almost NEVER happen if the batter is moving toward the pitcher; it is for when the batter moves closer to the plate to be hit by an inside pitch that would have otherwise not contacted her. In any other case, the batter is awarded first base.

While the rules intend that that the benefit of any doubt go to the batter, since no one can be a mindreader, that DOESN'T mean umpires can never let the result (she moved to where she would be hit, as opposed to making her normal hitting movements) speak for itself.

Hope that helps.

[wgcoop629]

Thanks Steve and tcannizzo

[fastpitchforever]

When did the rule change that the batters hands are not part of the bat? I recall years ago that a ball that hits the hands was considered a foul ball.

[MTR]

When did the rule change that the batters hands are not part of the bat? I recall years ago that a ball that hits the hands was considered a foul ball.

In my lifetime, the batter's hands have never, never been part of the bat. That is a myth created by begging coaches and idiot talking heads.

[tcannizzo]

When did the rule change that the batters hands are not part of the bat? I recall years ago that a ball that hits the hands was considered a foul ball.

take 2:
When Wal-mart stopped selling bats that came with hands.

[AlwaysImprove]

This is probably a better explanation of the common myth "the hands are part of the bat".
http://www.sdabu.com/mistakes_main.htm

The hands are not part of the bat. When the batter is swinging and the pitch hits them in the hands, often times the hands are in the strike zone, which is a dead ball strike. However if the pitch hits the hands and the hands are not in the strike zone, it is hbp.

The fact that sometimes dead ball strike is the right call, is probably why this myth has the staying power that it does.