Worth454 Pulled from college game.

[MTR]

Actually my daughter does not hit, she is a pitcher. No need to cheat. When she did hit, we did not use any of these bats.

Who said they did or even suggest that you did cheat? I would suggest you try reading and responding to what is written, but we all know better than that since you often cannot support your argument with anything other than your opinion and perception.

Are you arguing Nike bat was not hot?

Don't know, don't care. If it was approved, it is approved. If Nike wants it used in NCAA ball, they submit the name and model to the NCAA for inclusion on their list just like every other manufacturer. The requirement for a bat to be eligible to be on the list is that it is ASA approved with a 2004 certification stamp and not be on the Non-approved List

That's it, the same as NFHS and ASA, though ASA allows bats with the 2000 certification.

NCAA created a system to rid itself of those bats correct?

The NCAA created a system so they could have a procedure in place over which they had control. What does the NCAA do that ASA does not do on a regular bases? All of the ASA championship play in my state and many others have applied a BCT to each bat used in every game. Local ASA association even tests bats for local leagues. No big deal, that is until the NCAA does it, then you act like it was the second coming of Ronald Reagan.

[Tyler Durden]

"Now go get me a Samwich".......

Somebody's gonna be told to go get their Shine Box.

[UmpSteve]

So you still haven't named one bat you know for a fact has failed three strikes. Still unstubstantiated conclusions, not one fact.

NCAA has not banned bats; your false assumption. Manufacturers are in agreement with the process; the only challenge has been a request, and then an exception for Louisville Slugger Xeno series to BCT. Bats have been deleted from the Approved Bat List, but you restate without evidence as banned, still no facts.

Name a bat you KNOW has failed with three strikes. Any bat model this applies to has been banned. Stop assuming, stop acting like your assumption/conclusion a fact. Spin away, but any other answer simply proves you have no legitimate answer.

If you have no factual response, why not just admit it? The facts speak for themselves.

Of course the third strike, and removal from the list is not exposed in the way the list is stated. Third strike the bat just disappears.

Here is a question for you. The Nike bat was not hot? The LS from UCLA, not hot? The bat from Florida, not hot? Those are still valid in ASA play. Argue those bats away. Not hot? Whatever. Good luck proving there are no concerns.

And yes, I would then follow with the Phoenix (had 2 strike disappeared), the LS model that went through with 2 strikes and is now gone. The 454 reload when it is gone from NCAA list.

Coincidence is that you call bigdawgbatrolling and ask which bat you should buy for him to roll, and he gives you those exact same models. Or better yet. Buy a 454 reload. Send it to him for breaking in. Send it to WSU and report back. PM me, I will happily cover the cost.

Even for a competitive guy like Candrea, the bat situation was out of hand. Which is why he pushed, and other coaches were wise enough to push for their removal.

So, again, you can't name one, because you can't name one. You throw more speculation in reply, no facts.

You want me to call certain bat models "hot"? The only existing definition is bats that have failed the WSU process three times in NCAA (or 'x' times by ASA). These bats you can't even actually name; I DON'T KNOW. I'm not afraid to say that. Because they never, to my knowledge, met the only legal definitions of "hot".

Unlike you, I won't speculate, I simply refuse to let my opinions or personal conclusions that have no substantiating facts be stated as if they are factual. You could be right, but you have yet to prove it, factually, scientifically, or (most important to your accusations) even legally. What I know to be true, I will state. What I have been told, I restate as my understanding.

That's where we differ. When you can state one with actual substantiation, not your own opinion or unsupported conclusion, I will be the first to say you were right.

[GIMNEPIWO]

DD had a bat pulled from NCAA DIII Regionals last year ... A small piece of tape was coming off the grip in a pre-game inspection ... It was out for the tournament ...

Sure there wasn't anything else? That's a bit ridiculous.

I thought it was ridiculous too ( over zealous Official me thinks ) .... But yes ... Spoke to the tourny director myself who said she would get it back after the tourney

Did you request a rule citation? I doubt there is one.

... I had her other bat ( identical ) in the truck, but because it had not gone through the pre tourny approval process it couldn't be used ... Her bad , she should have had two bats approved ...

Again, ridiculous. Bats do break or become damaged. There is no reason a bat should not be allowed to be inspected and approved prior to use even after the tournament has started.

No, I did not request a rule citation ... I guessed that he tape coming off the handle, in the Umpires judgement at his pre-game inspection made this bat no longer safe for use ... Why he ( they ) did not just say put some tape on that before the game, I do not know ... But once it was out they said ' it's out ' ... I retaped the handle and almost a year later the bat is still in use ...

My understanding from the coach and Tourny Director was that ALL bats to be used by every team had to be submitted for a pre-tourny inspection or testing ... Her spare bat was in my truck, not with the team or offered for the pre-tourny inspection ...

[AlwaysImprove]

DD had a bat pulled from NCAA DIII Regionals last year ... A small piece of tape was coming off the grip in a pre-game inspection ... It was out for the tournament ...

Sure there wasn't anything else? That's a bit ridiculous.

I thought it was ridiculous too ( over zealous Official me thinks ) .... But yes ... Spoke to the tourny director myself who said she would get it back after the tourney

Did you request a rule citation? I doubt there is one.

... I had her other bat ( identical ) in the truck, but because it had not gone through the pre tourny approval process it couldn't be used ... Her bad , she should have had two bats approved ...

Again, ridiculous. Bats do break or become damaged. There is no reason a bat should not be allowed to be inspected and approved prior to use even after the tournament has started.

No, I did not request a rule citation ... I guessed that he tape coming off the handle, in the Umpires judgement at his pre-game inspection made this bat no longer safe for use ... Why he ( they ) did not just say put some tape on that before the game, I do not know ... But once it was out they said ' it's out ' ... I retaped the handle and almost a year later the bat is still in use ...

My understanding from the coach and Tourny Director was that ALL bats to be used by every team had to be submitted for a pre-tourny inspection or testing ... Her spare bat was in my truck, not with the team or offered for the pre-tourny inspection ...

"Review of the barrel compression test (BCT) data and the Washington State University (WSU) lab results from the 2010 season by the NCAA Softball Rules Committee. Notification sent to institutions and manufacturers whose bats tested 98 mph or faster."
Haha, remember when you had that show. "I see nothing! I was not here! I did not even get up this morning!" Funny stuff my friend. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34ag4nkSh7Q I bet that Bob Crane was a blast.

[UmpSteve]

You read that one line; good. Which bat model did it say had three strikes??

Now, did you read this paragraph??

When a model is assessed three strikes, the NCAA will send an e-mail or other such communication to coaches and officials, notifying them that the model will be scratched from the NCAA 2011 Approved Softball Bat List and will not be allowed in NCAA competition, as of the beginning of the day following the day of the above-referenced notification. The notifications will be sent to the e-mail addresses for each coach and official on file with, or otherwise held by, the NCAA in its database or through ArbiterSports.

So, any bats assessed three strikes resulted in an email. Ask any NCAA head coach or NCAA registered umpire which bat model they received this particular email about. That would be an illegally "hot" bat model by the only NCAA definition, one you could cite to prove your point.

@JonRiv: The protocol is that additional bats can be submitted as long as the same BCT device is on site. We can only surmise that your particular tournament had borrowed one for a limited time, and it was no longer available when you asked about getting your replacement bat approved.

That said, as long as the initial bat had passed the BCT and was stickered for that tournament, the team should have been allowed the opportunity to repair the grip. Any chance a team official copped an attitude, resulting in your team being relieved of that bat? In my experience (and it was reinforced at the recent D3 Leadoff Classic where I was present), the D3 coaches are much less familiar, prepared, and understanding with the BCT protocol and duplicative bat checks throughout than the D1 and even D2 divisions; I observed more than a few coaches unhappy and not quite getting the process. This despite the very top dog, the NCAA Rules Secretary, personally doing the testing and responding to their questions throughout.

[AlwaysImprove]

You read that one line; good. Which bat model did it say had three strikes??

Now, did you read this paragraph??

When a model is assessed three strikes, the NCAA will send an e-mail or other such communication to coaches and officials, notifying them that the model will be scratched from the NCAA 2011 Approved Softball Bat List and will not be allowed in NCAA competition, as of the beginning of the day following the day of the above-referenced notification. The notifications will be sent to the e-mail addresses for each coach and official on file with, or otherwise held by, the NCAA in its database or through ArbiterSports.

So, any bats assessed three strikes resulted in an email. Ask any NCAA head coach or NCAA registered umpire which bat model they received this particular email about. That would be an illegally "hot" bat model by the only NCAA definition, one you could cite to prove your point.

@JonRiv: The protocol is that additional bats can be submitted as long as the same BCT device is on site. We can only surmise that your particular tournament had borrowed one for a limited time, and it was no longer available when you asked about getting your replacement bat approved.

That said, as long as the initial bat had passed the BCT and was stickered for that tournament, the team should have been allowed the opportunity to repair the grip. Any chance a team official copped an attitude, resulting in your team being relieved of that bat? In my experience (and it was reinforced at the recent D3 Leadoff Classic where I was present), the D3 coaches are much less familiar, prepared, and understanding with the BCT protocol and duplicative bat checks throughout than the D1 and even D2 divisions; I observed more than a few coaches unhappy and not quite getting the process. This despite the very top dog, the NCAA Rules Secretary, personally doing the testing and responding to their questions throughout.

Those bats are still allowed in ASA, yes or no?

[UmpSteve]

You read that one line; good. Which bat model did it say had three strikes??

Now, did you read this paragraph??

When a model is assessed three strikes, the NCAA will send an e-mail or other such communication to coaches and officials, notifying them that the model will be scratched from the NCAA 2011 Approved Softball Bat List and will not be allowed in NCAA competition, as of the beginning of the day following the day of the above-referenced notification. The notifications will be sent to the e-mail addresses for each coach and official on file with, or otherwise held by, the NCAA in its database or through ArbiterSports.

So, any bats assessed three strikes resulted in an email. Ask any NCAA head coach or NCAA registered umpire which bat model they received this particular email about. That would be an illegally "hot" bat model by the only NCAA definition, one you could cite to prove your point.

@JonRiv: The protocol is that additional bats can be submitted as long as the same BCT device is on site. We can only surmise that your particular tournament had borrowed one for a limited time, and it was no longer available when you asked about getting your replacement bat approved.

That said, as long as the initial bat had passed the BCT and was stickered for that tournament, the team should have been allowed the opportunity to repair the grip. Any chance a team official copped an attitude, resulting in your team being relieved of that bat? In my experience (and it was reinforced at the recent D3 Leadoff Classic where I was present), the D3 coaches are much less familiar, prepared, and understanding with the BCT protocol and duplicative bat checks throughout than the D1 and even D2 divisions; I observed more than a few coaches unhappy and not quite getting the process. This despite the very top dog, the NCAA Rules Secretary, personally doing the testing and responding to their questions throughout.

Those bats are still allowed in ASA, yes or no?

What bats? Which ones that failed with three strikes as model failures have you named?

[jonriv]

Umpsteve- AI is refering to the Nike Bats that UCLA used prior to 2011(They no longer use) and the older (Easton?) bats that the University of Hawaii used

[quote]2011 Standard
Prior to the start of the 2011 softball season, the NCAA instituted a rule that no bat may have a speed rating higher than 98 mph, meaning 98 mph is the maximum speed that the ball may come off the bat. This came after a dramatic increase in home run totals across college softball in 2010. The University of Hawaii softball team hit 158 home runs that season, beating the previous team record by 24. Bat testers found that the speed of the softball off the bat often exceeded 104 MPH, so the NCAA decided to institute the change.


Read more: http://www.livestrong.com/article/46882 ... RuHB/quote]

http://www.livestrong.com/article/46882 ... -softball/

To AI's point-These bats are still legal in ASA and PGF

Complaints from other schools prompted NCAA action. Bat MFGs pull their bats before they reach the three strike level.

[AlwaysImprove]

You read that one line; good. Which bat model did it say had three strikes??

Now, did you read this paragraph??

When a model is assessed three strikes, the NCAA will send an e-mail or other such communication to coaches and officials, notifying them that the model will be scratched from the NCAA 2011 Approved Softball Bat List and will not be allowed in NCAA competition, as of the beginning of the day following the day of the above-referenced notification. The notifications will be sent to the e-mail addresses for each coach and official on file with, or otherwise held by, the NCAA in its database or through ArbiterSports.

So, any bats assessed three strikes resulted in an email. Ask any NCAA head coach or NCAA registered umpire which bat model they received this particular email about. That would be an illegally "hot" bat model by the only NCAA definition, one you could cite to prove your point.

@JonRiv: The protocol is that additional bats can be submitted as long as the same BCT device is on site. We can only surmise that your particular tournament had borrowed one for a limited time, and it was no longer available when you asked about getting your replacement bat approved.

That said, as long as the initial bat had passed the BCT and was stickered for that tournament, the team should have been allowed the opportunity to repair the grip. Any chance a team official copped an attitude, resulting in your team being relieved of that bat? In my experience (and it was reinforced at the recent D3 Leadoff Classic where I was present), the D3 coaches are much less familiar, prepared, and understanding with the BCT protocol and duplicative bat checks throughout than the D1 and even D2 divisions; I observed more than a few coaches unhappy and not quite getting the process. This despite the very top dog, the NCAA Rules Secretary, personally doing the testing and responding to their questions throughout.

Those bats are still allowed in ASA, yes or no?

What bats? Which ones that failed with three strikes as model failures have you named?

"I see nothing! ..., I hear nothing!" That was some funny schtick.
"... and manufacturers whose bats tested 98 mph or faster. ..." NCAA knows about them. Manufacturers know about them. Manufacturers knew before NCAA sent them a nice letter about it. I know about them. jonriv knows about them. WSU knows about them. The Bigdawg knows about them. All your coaches know about them. All your parents know about them.

Only one ostrich in this crowd. They are unsafe for NCAA and still allowed in ASA. Doesn't look good.

Take a few of your BCT model failures down to WSU, then you too could know about them. Or write a letter to NCAA and the manufacturers and ask them to tell you about it.

Keep your eyes closed that tight, there is probably not much that is going to help you.