Double Play

[Ed Hill]

This scenario happened at my daughter's high school game this weekend. There is one out with a runner on first. Batter hits a deep shot to centerfield. The centerfielder appears to make a running over the shoulder catch right in front of the outfield fence. Her momentum carries her into the fence and the ball pops out. The runner had gone half way but the first base coach thought that a catch had been made and yells for the runner to come to the bag. The centerfielder gets up and then fires the ball to the SS who was covering the bag. The field umpire calls the force out at 2nd while the original runner is standing back on first base. Meanwhile, the batter had run to first and was standing on the base along with the original runner who had been called out by the field umpire. The opposing coach starts yelling that 2 runners cannot occupy the same base and that the batter is also out because she has violated what he called the "double occupancy" rule because 2 runners cannot occupy the same base. The two umpires confer and they rule that that batter is out because of the double occupancy rule. I never heard of this rule but our coach didn't appeal so I guess this is a valid rule? My feeling is that the original runner had been forced out but that the batter had a right to be on the bag at first. Anybody ever heard of the "double occupancy" rule?

[Patrick]

I always look for the double occupancy rule when researching hotels, but not when umpiring SB. Some coach talked your umpire into a made up rule.

[Dugout Dad]

That's wrong. The batter has the right to first base, the runner is out on the force at second. But sh*t, what do I know?

[Bretman]

Wow. This is the third post on an internet forum I've seen this week where two runners just happen to be touching the same base at the same time, the umpires rule the play CORRECTLY, then the defensive coach spouts off about some imaginary rule and the umpires INCORRECTLY enforce another out that shouldn't be there.

We have a fail by the outfielder for not making the catch, a fail by the runner for not advancing, a fail by the first base coach for telling her to come back, a fail by the defensive coach for arguing a nonexistent rule and, the worst fail of them all, the fail by the umpires for apparently being talked into enforcing the nonexistent rule.

If two runners do just happen to be touching the same base, there's no automatic out or penalty. The defense is still required to complete the play and tag one of them out. Until that point, the runners can still advance or retreat, as the case may be, to correct their baserunning mistake.

[Comp]

You have never heard of the rule because there is no such rule. 2 runners may not occupy the same base, but that does not mean one is automatically out if they do. The defense must still make a play on the one not entitled to the base. The base belongs to the first runner to occupy the base, unless that runner has been forced from the base by a batter becoming a batter/runner. In the play you described, both runners were standing on 1st, and the defense did make a play on the lead runner, they threw the ball to 2nd for the force out and that should have been the end of the play right there.

[tcannizzo]

The only way to resolve 2 runners standing on the same base (Single or Double) is to tag out the one that doesn't belong there. No runner is ever called out just for being there.

This would typically be a forced runner who did not advance.

[Crabby_Bob]

Since we are talking high school:

NFHS: Case Play 8.3.3 SITUATION B: With R1 on third, R2 on second and R3 on first, R3 legally
steals second but R2 does not advance. The pitcher receives the ball in the circle
from the catcher and makes no play on any runner. May both runners remain
at second? RULING: No. The umpire, after permitting a reasonable amount of
time for a play to be made, shall declare the ball dead and call R3 out.

So, yes, the umpire can call a runner out just for being there. The previous doesn't apply to the OP because one of those runners is already out. I'm mystified, as are others, by why both runners were called out in the OP's scenario.

[Anti-Clone]

In this case, you don't have two runners occupying a base anyway. You have a retired runner and a runner. That's not the same thing.

I thought that the post was going to get more interesting and say that the batter-runner passed the runner, then the defense threw to 2nd base. That gets a little bit more involved, since the batter-runner is out and there is no force on R1 to advance to 2nd base anymore.

[Comp]

Since we are talking high school:

NFHS: Case Play 8.3.3 SITUATION B: With R1 on third, R2 on second and R3 on first, R3 legally
steals second but R2 does not advance. The pitcher receives the ball in the circle
from the catcher and makes no play on any runner. May both runners remain
at second? RULING: No. The umpire, after permitting a reasonable amount of
time for a play to be made, shall declare the ball dead and call R3 out.

So, yes, the umpire can call a runner out just for being there. The previous doesn't apply to the OP because one of those runners is already out. I'm mystified, as are others, by why both runners were called out in the OP's scenario.

Trying to find it but havent been able to locate it yet. Im pretty sure I have seen an ASA rules clarification on this and completely different ruling. If Im not mistaken, the ASA clarification was once it is obvious the defense is not going to play on the runner, dead ball, return the runner to the proper base. Always love when 2 rule sets come up with completely different rulings on the same thing.

[Crabby_Bob]

Trying to find it but havent been able to locate it yet. Im pretty sure I have seen an ASA rules clarification on this and completely different ruling. If Im not mistaken, the ASA clarification was once it is obvious the defense is not going to play on the runner, dead ball, return the runner to the proper base. Always love when 2 rule sets come up with completely different rulings on the same thing.

ASA: Case play PLAY 10.1-1 With R1 on 2B, R2 on 1B, B3 hits the ball to F6. R1 holds up as R2 advances to 2B. F6 throws out B3 at 1B and both runners remain on 2B. The defense does not notice and the ball is thrown to F1. No further play is apparent. RULING: The umpire should call “time” and place R2 back on 1B. (8-3E; 10-1)

It is opposite as you remembered. Now, for the $64 question, if in the ASA case play F6 had thrown out R1 at 3rd and the ball is returned to the pitcher in the circle and no further play is apparent but we have two runners standing at 1st, are we advancing R2 to 2nd? It would seem so.

I understand both philosophies. In ASA, we're not going to be allowed to violate 8.3.E prior to the next pitch but the defense doesn't get credit for an out for doing nothing. In NFHS, the resolution to two runners standing on one base with the ball in the pitcher's possession and in the circle must be a look-back violation.