Good Morning Umpires - Run Down

[bart16761]

Playing High School in So.Cal ASA Rules.
Runners on 2 and 3 two outs. Ground ball to 5. Runner on 3rd gets in rundown. While in the rundown batter runner advances safely to second runner on second advances to third.
R3 is ran back to 3rd after a few throws dives in tag is attemted on R3 to make the out base Ump gives safe call on R3. R2 now exits thiird base without being tagged or even an attempt being made to tag her and is in a rundown between 2nd and 3rd. A throw occurs to home as runner on third advances during this rundown and is safe at home R2 safe at third batter runner safe at 2nd base. All is good right? Not right a long conversation ensues and the first call was that the R3 is out no run scores R2 is out ?? we argue WTF umpires says and I quote why does this always happen when I am unpiring . Basically he either was unsure of the rule or did not know the rule, I agree that we were a little unsure as well. The end result was that R3 was ruled out no run scored R2 safe at 3rd batter runner safe at two, but that was the third out would have been tie game top of six two on best hitter on deck ugh.

Let it fly gentleman. I think the original ruling is correct as I understand it the first runner to occupy the base is entitled to it so when she was called safe she is safe if they would have tagged R2 she would have been out but that was not attempted and theensuing rundown allowed the run to score and runners to be safe.

Thanks

[rowdyone]

I thought the rule was who is on base owns the base in which the girl that was on 3rd going home got in run down no longer has the right to third because their is someone on it so if taged she would be out. Runners on 3rd and 2nd are safe to stay

[Comp]

You have the call correct. First runner to occupy a base is entitles to it unless forced from the base. The defense needed to tag the trailing runner who was initially standing on 2nd (now on 3rd) to get an out. All the action you described on the play was legal and the run should have scored.

[PDad]

Playing High School in So.Cal ASA Rules. ...

What HS plays by ASA rules? Wouldn't matter in this case...

[bart16761]

Playing High School in So.Cal ASA Rules. ...

What HS plays by ASA rules? Wouldn't matter in this case...

I could be wrong about that that is what we were told by the same guy who said why does this always happen to me. We play in SO Cal Div 1 if you have information that we are playing by another set of rules I would like to know that. Thanks!

[bart16761]

Playing High School in So.Cal ASA Rules. ...

What HS plays by ASA rules? Wouldn't matter in this case...

I could be wrong about that that is what we were told by the same guy who said why does this always happen to me. We play in SO Cal Div 1 if you have information that we are playing by another set of rules I would like to know that. Thanks!

HS plays under NFHS rules. many similarities with ASA but also some big differences.

Thanks Spazz some differences such as?? Can you hit me with the big ones or refer me to something?
Thanks

[Comp]

Playing High School in So.Cal ASA Rules. ...

What HS plays by ASA rules? Wouldn't matter in this case...

I could be wrong about that that is what we were told by the same guy who said why does this always happen to me. We play in SO Cal Div 1 if you have information that we are playing by another set of rules I would like to know that. Thanks!

HS plays under NFHS rules. many similarities with ASA but also some big differences.

Thanks Spazz some differences such as?? Can you hit me with the big ones or refer me to something?
Thanks

For lookback rule, pitcher is only required to have posession of the ball in the circle under FED, ASA requires posession and control.

FED does not consider a ball deflecting off the pitcher as an initial play on the ball and still protects other fielders who may have a play on the ball from being interferred with. ASA, if the ball is deflected by the pitcher the runner must do something intentional to interfere.

ASA, on a pop fly ball (fair or foul) that can be caught with normal effort, if the defender is interfered with both the runner who interferred and the batter are out. In FED, only the runner who interfered is out. If the ball was in foul ground, the ball is dead and a strike on the batter, if in fair ground the batter is awarded 1st base on the interference.

There are some other minor differences, but those are the first ones that come to mind.

[Comp]

Dang, forgot the biggest one.

FED removed the requirement for the batter to attempt to avoid being hit by a pitch if the ball is entirely inside the batters box. ASA still requires the batter to make an attempt to avoid the pitch.

[UmpSteve]

Must pull bat back if squared to bunt or considered an attempt in NFHS; not so in ASA.

Pitcher only required to have pivot foot in contact with pitching plate; can legally step back as part of pitching motion if done prior to or simultaneous with bringing hands together.

Many, many.

http://downloads.asasoftball.com/umpire ... rences.pdf

[PDad]

Bretman posted that ASA and NFHS have different interpretations regarding the running lane. He said ASA goes by whether the ball is in the running lane and NFHS goes by the B-R.