Hit by Pitch

[MTR]

Got a bur in your bonnet, UmpSteve? You can do both behind the plate. I know you can. If not, maybe you should look for another hobby. As an umpire you should know when a slapper makes contact you look where their foot is. Besides, when the ball is contacted, we don't need the umpire to call a ball or strike. That part is obvious.

Not with any confidence.

The rule doesn't prohibit the batter to be out of the box after making contact with the ball, it says while making contact with the ball. If you are watching the pitch up until the time the bat and ball make contact, how can you be sure the foot was on the ground completely outside of the box at the same moment?

I'm not saying it is impossible, but unless the pitch is on the low side to the point that the pitch takes your line of sight toward the ground, I believe you are going to have a difficult time insuring the contact with the ball and ground COMPLETELY outside of the box is just going to be a guess.

And umpsteve and I have been there, also, for over 70 years total

[UmpSteve]

I have been noticing many NCAA slappers with their front foot completely out in front of the box when making contact with the ball, as well.

When watching it live, could you judge whether the pitch was a ball or a strike while seeing the foot out of the front of the box? Just curious.

And aside from judging if a ball or strike at the plane of the pitch, simultaneously judging if 1) the pitcher's foot landed on or outside the 24" line, and a different plane, and if 3) that foot that you see out of the front of the box is on the ground or in the air at the exact moment of contact, on a third plane, and 4) if the slapper made a swing or held up to tap the ball, watching the bat and arm movement at the same instant. That is, if 5) the umpire doesn't have to also judge if the ball hit the bat or the batter, and if 6) the batter's movement didn't move her into the pitch.

In the meantime, the tv talking heads have watched 3 slow motion replays of a pitch, then show a simulation of a computer generated grid to say the umpire missed and called a strike on a pitch 1/4" off the plate.

Reality check, people. From the beginning of slaphitting, batters have been out the front of the box. Smart pitchers and pitch callers use changes of speed to throw them off their rhythm and timing. Coaches and parents that can't, and spend their energy whining to the umpire, instead, end up with a distracted umpire.

If you want to even dream of any semblence of a consistent and accurate strike zone from the plate umpire, STFU about the secondary issues that only distract the umpire from focusing on the most important part of the job.

Got a bur in your bonnet, UmpSteve? You can do both behind the plate. I know you can. If not, maybe you should look for another hobby. As an umpire you should know when a slapper makes contact you look where their foot is. Besides, when the ball is contacted, we don't need the umpire to call a ball or strike. That part is obvious.

Just hoping while you stare at the "obvious" slapper's foot, you don't need to judge fair/foul, catch/trap, if the batted ball hit the batter in/out of the box, or if the discarded bat contacted the ball or interfered with the catcher. Dude, you clearly have no grasp on umpiring by priorities. The slapper's foot is somewhere about 4 or 5 on that list.

You must be a true legend in your rec league. Here's my suggestion. If you are an umpire, go to cactusumpires.com, and read Emily Alexander, probably the foremost expert in umpiring softball, explaining umpiring by priorities. If you aren't an umpire, listen and learn; then let those who know, do.

[ontheblack]

You must be a true legend in your rec league.

Thats a great line.

Here's my suggestion. If you are an umpire, go to cactusumpires.com, and read Emily Alexander, probably the foremost expert in umpiring softball, explaining umpiring by priorities. If you aren't an umpire, listen and learn; then let those who know, do.

Good advice for all rec (and TB) coaches, legend or not, is to learn umpiring priorities.

[Softball Swami]

I have been noticing many NCAA slappers with their front foot completely out in front of the box when making contact with the ball, as well.

When watching it live, could you judge whether the pitch was a ball or a strike while seeing the foot out of the front of the box? Just curious.

And aside from judging if a ball or strike at the plane of the pitch, simultaneously judging if 1) the pitcher's foot landed on or outside the 24" line, and a different plane, and if 3) that foot that you see out of the front of the box is on the ground or in the air at the exact moment of contact, on a third plane, and 4) if the slapper made a swing or held up to tap the ball, watching the bat and arm movement at the same instant. That is, if 5) the umpire doesn't have to also judge if the ball hit the bat or the batter, and if 6) the batter's movement didn't move her into the pitch.

In the meantime, the tv talking heads have watched 3 slow motion replays of a pitch, then show a simulation of a computer generated grid to say the umpire missed and called a strike on a pitch 1/4" off the plate.

Reality check, people. From the beginning of slaphitting, batters have been out the front of the box. Smart pitchers and pitch callers use changes of speed to throw them off their rhythm and timing. Coaches and parents that can't, and spend their energy whining to the umpire, instead, end up with a distracted umpire.

If you want to even dream of any semblence of a consistent and accurate strike zone from the plate umpire, STFU about the secondary issues that only distract the umpire from focusing on the most important part of the job.

Your priggish response just confirmed what I (and probably thousands of others) always thought about the vast majority of umpires. Most have gigantic egos with a huge perception of their self importance to the game of softball. Judging by your response, you should probably look for a different hobby (assuming that umpiring is not your main source of income). The good ones can multi task with no problem whatsoever and don't let themselves become a "distracted" umpire. They also don't come whine on softball message boards.

[MTR]

Your priggish response just confirmed what I (and probably thousands of others) always thought about the vast majority of umpires. Most have gigantic egos with a huge perception of their self importance to the game of softball. Judging by your response, you should probably look for a different hobby (assuming that umpiring is not your main source of income). The good ones can multi task with no problem whatsoever and don't let themselves become a "distracted" umpire. They also don't come whine on softball message boards.

Another uninformed opinion from the cheap seats

[tcannizzo]

Let me take one shot at this straight up since the poster did not get the gist of Steve's very thorough and correct explanation.

Let's just take the two main factors into consideration:
a.) batter's foot completely outside the box AND on the ground
b.) before the ball makes contact with the bat

So plink-step is never an out.
But step-plink would be an out if the foot was completely out of the box on the step.

PU's are not focused on any movement the batter makes, whether it is dipping, leaning or running to slap. The only thing is the pitch in relation to the strike zone.

The field of vision of any human being (scientists chime in here) make it physically impossible to see the bat contact the ball and the batter's feet at the same time. Unless we had independent eyes like a lobster.

Any reasonable coach (or even a legend) would have to agree that the PU must see the pitch all the way through its completion. This is #1 priority among the many responsibilities stated.

That make this call one of the most difficult in softball, especially when referring to the front of the batter's box.

The only times we can really see it is on a change up where the slapper is seriously fooled and is already out of the box when the pitch floats in, or when the batter steps directly in front of home plate.

And coach, if you were to check the credentials of the umpires your are calling out here, you would be probably offering a major apology.

[UmpSteve]

Your priggish response just confirmed what I (and probably thousands of others) always thought about the vast majority of umpires. Most have gigantic egos with a huge perception of their self importance to the game of softball. Judging by your response, you should probably look for a different hobby (assuming that umpiring is not your main source of income). The good ones can multi task with no problem whatsoever and don't let themselves become a "distracted" umpire. They also don't come whine on softball message boards.

Another uninformed opinion from the cheap seats

For 16 total posts, Spazsdad is a pompous ass, and I am priggish. Sounds like his turban isn't the only thing wound too tightly.

[Softball Swami]

Your priggish response just confirmed what I (and probably thousands of others) always thought about the vast majority of umpires. Most have gigantic egos with a huge perception of their self importance to the game of softball. Judging by your response, you should probably look for a different hobby (assuming that umpiring is not your main source of income). The good ones can multi task with no problem whatsoever and don't let themselves become a "distracted" umpire. They also don't come whine on softball message boards.

Another uninformed opinion from the cheap seats

For 16 total posts, Spazsdad is a pompous ass, and I am priggish. Sounds like his turban isn't the only thing wound too tightly.

Ha Ha! Good one Ump Steve. Your attempt (albeit a weak one) at humor has re-affirmed the thought context of my original post.

Wow, you guys sure are hung up on the number of posts that someone makes. My number of posts would be higher but I have a thing called a job that prevents me from posting 24/7 like you and your fellow brethren that put stock in numbers. I am giving some thought to quitting so I can get my number of posts up. Or maybe I will just continue to post on those subjects that I deem relevant instead of banging a response out on every post made on Hey Bucket.

[Anti-Clone]

Too many umpires use excuses so that they don't need to make tough calls. Umpires need to focus more on how to get tough calls correct rather than telling everyone how difficult their job is and why they can't do one thing after another, which is different than multitasking. Having greater priorities doesn't mean ignoring other responsibilities.

What techniques have the umpires with 20+ years experience used to try to get these calls correct?

Umpires need to know how to use their eyes and ears when umpiring. Experienced umpires can prepare for and recognize slap hitters 95% of the time. It's not hard to figure out and if you can't figure it out, I wouldn't consider you to be an experienced umpire.

I fully agree that umpires should read the pitch and track the ball into the glove. That's how you get pitches correct. But, if a slapper is giving you difficultly, there is nothing wrong with flashing your eyes to her foot/feet just prior to the ball reaching the plate. By now, your eyes and mind have already been able to read where the pitch is going. Will that be 100% as accurate as tracking the ball all the way to the glove? Of course not. However, the ball won't be in the catcher's glove if the slapper contacts the ball anyway (other than a foul tip). And you will still see where the catcher catches the pitch if it is not contacted. If the batter's foot/feet are out of the box just before the ball arrives and you HEAR bat on ball contact, you can make a proper call.

With that said, umpire should not impose themselves on the game unless they are 100% certain that a violation like this has occurred. Replay after replay shows that umpires are more often correct not calling what "others" perceived as a violation than they are at calling what they did perceive as a violation. This is not a "when in doubt, call 'em out" situation.

[MTR]

And you will still see where the catcher catches the pitch if it is not contacted.

Curious as to why you think this is important.

This is not a "when in doubt, call 'em out" situation.

It never should be.