Hit By Pitch and the college game

[AlwaysImprove]

Wait, how wide is the ball?

I was specifically talking about batters where the hitter is crowding the plate. Not the case where the ball gets into a hitter in the batters box.

So, trying to read through everything, lot's of measuring, for which it seems AC and MTR are getting the right measurements. Let's assume those measurements (you guys can keep hashing that as you like).

So how are we to interpret the current set of rules? Seems the hitter is in one of three states.
First is clear they are over the plate in the strike zone. Hit by pitch - dead ball strike.
Second is clear. Batter is in the batters box. Hit by pitch - Batter get's 1b.

Third, Batter is clearly in the space between the batters box and the plate and is struck by the ball. I just want to make sure we are super clear on this situation. Currently the rules do not award this batter to first base? Do they get dead ball strike? Do they have to appear to avoid to get 1b, in this situation?

[PDad]

As MTR stated, if he and I agree over the philosophy and application of a rule, we must have a point. While you may not agree with it, you should probably give it some consideration.

Every sport has fundamental rules to where things and participants belong. It's that simple. There are a million examples. The F-ing ball does not belong entirely within the batter's box. Not batter should be required to move out of the way of a ball so far from the plate.

The replies to your post weren't about the rule or its application, just your characterization of a pitch having to miss the plate / strike zone by at least 10 inches. G simply pointed out your exaggeration/miscalculation and it went down hill after MTR stuck his nose in it.

[Sam]

The real issue is that the morons running college softball, the coaches, changed the rule to allow for more base runners who don't have to earn their way on base. They know that the strike zone is 4" off of both sides of the plate......because that is the zone THEY have mandated the umpires call. So the pitcher isn't missing the zone by 10"......they are missing by 2"......The rule was fine before. Our fine friends in the college coaching profession again manipulate the rules to make up for their inept coaching "ability." Recruiting, the strike zone, leaping, towels,HBP, hot bats that make everyone a HR threat,.....what's next?

The umpires have no say......their bosses, the guys who cut the checks, are ruining the game....dumbing it down to the lowest common denominator.....down their level.

[Anti-Clone]

The real issue is that the morons running college softball, the coaches, changed the rule to allow for more base runners who don't have to earn their way on base. They know that the strike zone is 4" off of both sides of the plate......because that is the zone THEY have mandated the umpires call. So the pitcher isn't missing the zone by 10"......they are missing by 2"......The rule was fine before. Our fine friends in the college coaching profession again manipulate the rules to make up for their inept coaching "ability." Recruiting, the strike zone, leaping, towels,HBP, hot bats that make everyone a HR threat,.....what's next?

The umpires have no say......their bosses, the guys who cut the checks, are ruining the game....dumbing it down to the lowest common denominator.....down their level.

The rule is a good one to anyone actually invested in the game. It eliminates the old line of bull$hit you used to hear like, "Your runner isn't getting the base, she didn't try to avoid getting hit" when the ball split the batter's box and drilled the batter at 65 MPH. It also eliminated the arguments that SOFTBALL coaches simply couldn't get (baseball coaches have understood it for decades) that a batter may try to roll back away from the ball, actually causing or increasing the likelihood of getting hit. Batter's aren't required to predict with pinpoint accuracy where they are going to get hit or if the ball will miss them by a fraction of an inch. Coaches would argue, "She turned into it" which is absurd. A batter has the right to choose to get drilled in the small of her back instead of her ribs or shoulder blade rather than her arm.

The solution is to throw the ball over/near the plate.

[Anti-Clone]

So how are we to interpret the current set of rules? Seems the hitter is in one of three states.
First is clear they are over the plate in the strike zone. Hit by pitch - dead ball strike.
Second is clear. Batter is in the batters box. Hit by pitch - Batter get's 1b.

Third, Batter is clearly in the space between the batters box and the plate and is struck by the ball. I just want to make sure we are super clear on this situation. Currently the rules do not award this batter to first base? Do they get dead ball strike? Do they have to appear to avoid to get 1b, in this situation?

If it is not entirely within the batter's box, then the batter must attempt to avoid getting hit. If the batter does so, she is awarded 1st base. If she doesn't, it is a ball. By definition, if it is in the space between the plate and the lines, it is out of the strike zone and a strike call is not an option.

[ontheblack]

So how are we to interpret the current set of rules? Seems the hitter is in one of three states.
First is clear they are over the plate in the strike zone. Hit by pitch - dead ball strike.
Second is clear. Batter is in the batters box. Hit by pitch - Batter get's 1b.

Third, Batter is clearly in the space between the batters box and the plate and is struck by the ball. I just want to make sure we are super clear on this situation. Currently the rules do not award this batter to first base? Do they get dead ball strike? Do they have to appear to avoid to get 1b, in this situation?

If it is not entirely within the batter's box, then the batter must attempt to avoid getting hit. If the batter does so, she is awarded 1st base. If she doesn't, it is a ball. By definition, if it is in the space between the plate and the lines, it is out of the strike zone and a strike call is not an option.

Thank you for that answer, which is clear enough for even me to understand. And it only took 6 pages to get there.

[Sam]

The real issue is that the morons running college softball, the coaches, changed the rule to allow for more base runners who don't have to earn their way on base. They know that the strike zone is 4" off of both sides of the plate......because that is the zone THEY have mandated the umpires call. So the pitcher isn't missing the zone by 10"......they are missing by 2"......The rule was fine before. Our fine friends in the college coaching profession again manipulate the rules to make up for their inept coaching "ability." Recruiting, the strike zone, leaping, towels,HBP, hot bats that make everyone a HR threat,.....what's next?

The umpires have no say......their bosses, the guys who cut the checks, are ruining the game....dumbing it down to the lowest common denominator.....down their level.

The rule is a good one to anyone actually invested in the game. It eliminates the old line of bull$hit you used to hear like, "Your runner isn't getting the base, she didn't try to avoid getting hit" when the ball split the batter's box and drilled the batter at 65 MPH. It also eliminated the arguments that SOFTBALL coaches simply couldn't get (baseball coaches have understood it for decades) that a batter may try to roll back away from the ball, actually causing or increasing the likelihood of getting hit. Batter's aren't required to predict with pinpoint accuracy where they are going to get hit or if the ball will miss them by a fraction of an inch. Coaches would argue, "She turned into it" which is absurd. A batter has the right to choose to get drilled in the small of her back instead of her ribs or shoulder blade rather than her arm.

The solution is to throw the ball over/near the plate.

You are arguing that it fixed a non-existent problem.

Now.....can a RH hitter with an open stance, back foot on the back line of the box at the corner nearest the plate, get hit by a curveball from a LH pitcher that catches the front corner of the SZ but ends up hitting the batter's back foot with the ball completely within the batters box? Strike or HBP?

Next these guys will get rid of the IF Fly rule. It requires some semblance of judgement also.

[AlwaysImprove]

The real issue is that the morons running college softball, the coaches, changed the rule to allow for more base runners who don't have to earn their way on base. They know that the strike zone is 4" off of both sides of the plate......because that is the zone THEY have mandated the umpires call. So the pitcher isn't missing the zone by 10"......they are missing by 2"......The rule was fine before. Our fine friends in the college coaching profession again manipulate the rules to make up for their inept coaching "ability." Recruiting, the strike zone, leaping, towels,HBP, hot bats that make everyone a HR threat,.....what's next?

The umpires have no say......their bosses, the guys who cut the checks, are ruining the game....dumbing it down to the lowest common denominator.....down their level.

The rule is a good one to anyone actually invested in the game. It eliminates the old line of bull$hit you used to hear like, "Your runner isn't getting the base, she didn't try to avoid getting hit" when the ball split the batter's box and drilled the batter at 65 MPH. It also eliminated the arguments that SOFTBALL coaches simply couldn't get (baseball coaches have understood it for decades) that a batter may try to roll back away from the ball, actually causing or increasing the likelihood of getting hit. Batter's aren't required to predict with pinpoint accuracy where they are going to get hit or if the ball will miss them by a fraction of an inch. Coaches would argue, "She turned into it" which is absurd. A batter has the right to choose to get drilled in the small of her back instead of her ribs or shoulder blade rather than her arm.

The solution is to throw the ball over/near the plate.

Yes, thanks for correcting my error. Could not be a strike as it was not over the plate, so a ball. Actually a dead ball - ball, correct? I have never seen one of those called, has anyone else?

I am ok with the rule change based on the theory you presented. It seems now umpires are again back to screwing themselves. They should be calling those pitches that are in that zone between the plate and the batters box when the batter is leaning in dead ball - balls. They did that, the rule theory now meets the road correctly.

And yes, I realize that if they did start calling that, they are going to take a ton crap from coaches/players for that approach as well. That would make this rule make sense.

[Comp]

At the NCAA level I have seen 3 or 4 batters called back to the bock for purposely leaning into a pitch, as for any being kept at bat because the ball was not entirely in the box, no.

I have personally called it at the high school level, and yes it created a major sh** storm.

[narcosis]

The real issue is that the morons running college softball, the coaches, changed the rule to allow for more base runners who don't have to earn their way on base. They know that the strike zone is 4" off of both sides of the plate......because that is the zone THEY have mandated the umpires call. So the pitcher isn't missing the zone by 10"......they are missing by 2"......The rule was fine before. Our fine friends in the college coaching profession again manipulate the rules to make up for their inept coaching "ability." Recruiting, the strike zone, leaping, towels,HBP, hot bats that make everyone a HR threat,.....what's next?

The umpires have no say......their bosses, the guys who cut the checks, are ruining the game....dumbing it down to the lowest common denominator.....down their level.

The rule is a good one to anyone actually invested in the game. It eliminates the old line of bull$hit you used to hear like, "Your runner isn't getting the base, she didn't try to avoid getting hit" when the ball split the batter's box and drilled the batter at 65 MPH. It also eliminated the arguments that SOFTBALL coaches simply couldn't get (baseball coaches have understood it for decades) that a batter may try to roll back away from the ball, actually causing or increasing the likelihood of getting hit. Batter's aren't required to predict with pinpoint accuracy where they are going to get hit or if the ball will miss them by a fraction of an inch. Coaches would argue, "She turned into it" which is absurd. A batter has the right to choose to get drilled in the small of her back instead of her ribs or shoulder blade rather than her arm.

The solution is to throw the ball over/near the plate.

You are arguing that it fixed a non-existent problem.

Now.....can a RH hitter with an open stance, back foot on the back line of the box at the corner nearest the plate, get hit by a curveball from a LH pitcher that catches the front corner of the SZ but ends up hitting the batter's back foot with the ball completely within the batters box? Strike or HBP?

Next these guys will get rid of the IF Fly rule. It requires some semblance of judgement also.

HBP. Ball came into BB and hit batter. Same as a fly ball and two players call for the ball then watch it hit the ground and batter arrives at 1b safe. You score that a hit...not an error.