Hit By Pitch and the college game

[AlwaysImprove]

The real issue is that the morons running college softball, the coaches, changed the rule to allow for more base runners who don't have to earn their way on base. They know that the strike zone is 4" off of both sides of the plate......because that is the zone THEY have mandated the umpires call. So the pitcher isn't missing the zone by 10"......they are missing by 2"......The rule was fine before. Our fine friends in the college coaching profession again manipulate the rules to make up for their inept coaching "ability." Recruiting, the strike zone, leaping, towels,HBP, hot bats that make everyone a HR threat,.....what's next?

The umpires have no say......their bosses, the guys who cut the checks, are ruining the game....dumbing it down to the lowest common denominator.....down their level.

The rule is a good one to anyone actually invested in the game. It eliminates the old line of bull$hit you used to hear like, "Your runner isn't getting the base, she didn't try to avoid getting hit" when the ball split the batter's box and drilled the batter at 65 MPH. It also eliminated the arguments that SOFTBALL coaches simply couldn't get (baseball coaches have understood it for decades) that a batter may try to roll back away from the ball, actually causing or increasing the likelihood of getting hit. Batter's aren't required to predict with pinpoint accuracy where they are going to get hit or if the ball will miss them by a fraction of an inch. Coaches would argue, "She turned into it" which is absurd. A batter has the right to choose to get drilled in the small of her back instead of her ribs or shoulder blade rather than her arm.

The solution is to throw the ball over/near the plate.

You are arguing that it fixed a non-existent problem.

Now.....can a RH hitter with an open stance, back foot on the back line of the box at the corner nearest the plate, get hit by a curveball from a LH pitcher that catches the front corner of the SZ but ends up hitting the batter's back foot with the ball completely within the batters box? Strike or HBP?

Next these guys will get rid of the IF Fly rule. It requires some semblance of judgement also.

HBP. Ball came into BB and hit batter. Same as a fly ball and two players call for the ball then watch it hit the ground and batter arrives at 1b safe. You score that a hit...not an error.

Really? It was a strike, long before it hit a batter.

If this actually ever happened I would be fine if blue just called out "Holy $hit, did you see that?" at that point.

[UmpSteve]

The real issue is that the morons running college softball, the coaches, changed the rule to allow for more base runners who don't have to earn their way on base. They know that the strike zone is 4" off of both sides of the plate......because that is the zone THEY have mandated the umpires call. So the pitcher isn't missing the zone by 10"......they are missing by 2"......The rule was fine before. Our fine friends in the college coaching profession again manipulate the rules to make up for their inept coaching "ability." Recruiting, the strike zone, leaping, towels,HBP, hot bats that make everyone a HR threat,.....what's next?

The umpires have no say......their bosses, the guys who cut the checks, are ruining the game....dumbing it down to the lowest common denominator.....down their level.

The rule is a good one to anyone actually invested in the game. It eliminates the old line of bull$hit you used to hear like, "Your runner isn't getting the base, she didn't try to avoid getting hit" when the ball split the batter's box and drilled the batter at 65 MPH. It also eliminated the arguments that SOFTBALL coaches simply couldn't get (baseball coaches have understood it for decades) that a batter may try to roll back away from the ball, actually causing or increasing the likelihood of getting hit. Batter's aren't required to predict with pinpoint accuracy where they are going to get hit or if the ball will miss them by a fraction of an inch. Coaches would argue, "She turned into it" which is absurd. A batter has the right to choose to get drilled in the small of her back instead of her ribs or shoulder blade rather than her arm.

The solution is to throw the ball over/near the plate.

You are arguing that it fixed a non-existent problem.

Now.....can a RH hitter with an open stance, back foot on the back line of the box at the corner nearest the plate, get hit by a curveball from a LH pitcher that catches the front corner of the SZ but ends up hitting the batter's back foot with the ball completely within the batters box? Strike or HBP?

Next these guys will get rid of the IF Fly rule. It requires some semblance of judgement also.

HBP. Ball came into BB and hit batter. Same as a fly ball and two players call for the ball then watch it hit the ground and batter arrives at 1b safe. You score that a hit...not an error.

Really? It was a strike, long before it hit a batter.

If this actually ever happened I would be fine if blue just called out "Holy $hit, did you see that?" at that point.

And here I thought this rhetorical.

Rules answer: Whenever a batter is hit by a pitch, it is a HBP; no matter where it happens, it is a dead ball and HBP. The difference is if a batter is HBP that is a strike, we have ....


drum roll .......


Seriously?? A dead ball strike.

[Sam]

Steve,

Don't you think we need a new rule to fix this non-existent problem?

My point to Anti-Clone is that my hypothetical would happen just about as many times as his/her hypothetical of a batter getting drilled by a 65mph pitch in the middle of the batters box and the umpire refusting to award 1B because there was no effort to avoid being hit by the pitch. It never happens.

[Anti-Clone]

Steve,

Don't you think we need a new rule to fix this non-existent problem?

My point to Anti-Clone is that my hypothetical would happen just about as many times as his/her hypothetical of a batter getting drilled by a 65mph pitch in the middle of the batters box and the umpire refusting to award 1B because there was no effort to avoid being hit by the pitch. It never happens.

Well the way the rule WAS written for NCAA and still is written for other organizations, it does happen. I wouldn't have brought it up if it didn't.

[Sam]

Steve,

Don't you think we need a new rule to fix this non-existent problem?

My point to Anti-Clone is that my hypothetical would happen just about as many times as his/her hypothetical of a batter getting drilled by a 65mph pitch in the middle of the batters box and the umpire refusting to award 1B because there was no effort to avoid being hit by the pitch. It never happens.

Well the way the rule WAS written for NCAA and still is written for other organizations, it does happen. I wouldn't have brought it up if it didn't.

Well we aren't really seeing an outpouring of anecdotal stories from other coaches and umpires supporting your particular point of view.....so it happens about as often as my hypothetical.

[narcosis]

The real issue is that the morons running college softball, the coaches, changed the rule to allow for more base runners who don't have to earn their way on base. They know that the strike zone is 4" off of both sides of the plate......because that is the zone THEY have mandated the umpires call. So the pitcher isn't missing the zone by 10"......they are missing by 2"......The rule was fine before. Our fine friends in the college coaching profession again manipulate the rules to make up for their inept coaching "ability." Recruiting, the strike zone, leaping, towels,HBP, hot bats that make everyone a HR threat,.....what's next?

The umpires have no say......their bosses, the guys who cut the checks, are ruining the game....dumbing it down to the lowest common denominator.....down their level.

The rule is a good one to anyone actually invested in the game. It eliminates the old line of bull$hit you used to hear like, "Your runner isn't getting the base, she didn't try to avoid getting hit" when the ball split the batter's box and drilled the batter at 65 MPH. It also eliminated the arguments that SOFTBALL coaches simply couldn't get (baseball coaches have understood it for decades) that a batter may try to roll back away from the ball, actually causing or increasing the likelihood of getting hit. Batter's aren't required to predict with pinpoint accuracy where they are going to get hit or if the ball will miss them by a fraction of an inch. Coaches would argue, "She turned into it" which is absurd. A batter has the right to choose to get drilled in the small of her back instead of her ribs or shoulder blade rather than her arm.

The solution is to throw the ball over/near the plate.

You are arguing that it fixed a non-existent problem.

Now.....can a RH hitter with an open stance, back foot on the back line of the box at the corner nearest the plate, get hit by a curveball from a LH pitcher that catches the front corner of the SZ but ends up hitting the batter's back foot with the ball completely within the batters box? Strike or HBP?

Next these guys will get rid of the IF Fly rule. It requires some semblance of judgement also.

HBP. Ball came into BB and hit batter. Same as a fly ball and two players call for the ball then watch it hit the ground and batter arrives at 1b safe. You score that a hit...not an error.

Really? It was a strike, long before it hit a batter.

If this actually ever happened I would be fine if blue just called out "Holy $hit, did you see that?" at that point.

And here I thought this rhetorical.

Rules answer: Whenever a batter is hit by a pitch, it is a HBP; no matter where it happens, it is a dead ball and HBP. The difference is if a batter is HBP that is a strike, we have ....


drum roll .......


Seriously?? A dead ball strike.

AI - I agree with you it was a strike before the batter was hit but unlike a strike that the catcher catches outside the zone, the ball hit the batter while they were in the box. I do agree that the ump should say what you said.

Umpsteve - I understood the strike was a called strike not a swinging strike. So drum roll.......how can a non-swinging strike that hits the batter be called a dead ball strike?

[Fredegar]

Umpsteve - I understood the strike was a called strike not a swinging strike. So drum roll.......how can a non-swinging strike that hits the batter be called a dead ball strike?

Because it's in the rules. To save UmpSteve the trouble, here's the ASA code:
ASA Rule 7-4-J:
A strike is called by the umpire ... When a legally pitched ball hits the batter while the ball is in the strike zone.
ASA Rule 7-4-M
A strike is called by the umpire ... When a pitched ball is prevented from entering the strike zone by any actions of the batter other than hitting the ball.
EFFECT: The ball is dead and each runner must return to their base without liability to be put out.

[GIMNEPIWO]

Umpsteve - I understood the strike was a called strike not a swinging strike. So drum roll.......how can a non-swinging strike that hits the batter be called a dead ball strike?

Because it's in the rules. To save UmpSteve the trouble, here's the ASA code:
ASA Rule 7-4-J:
A strike is called by the umpire ... When a legally pitched ball hits the batter while the ball is in the strike zone.
ASA Rule 7-4-M
A strike is called by the umpire ... When a pitched ball is prevented from entering the strike zone by any actions of the batter other than hitting the ball.
EFFECT: The ball is dead and each runner must return to their base without liability to be put out.

Weren't we discussing NCAA ? And isn't ASA 7-4-M different in NCAA ? 'No pitch' isn't it ?

[UmpSteve]

I am on a road trip, ASA, so no NCAA rulebook handy to cite rule numbers.

That said, NCAA has the same rule as ASA, in that any pitched ball that is a strike that hits the batter is a dead ball ball strike; there is not any differentiation in any rules set that I know of between swinging strikes, called strikes, or strikes because the batter didn't pull back after squaring to bunt. If a pitched strike contacts the batter (or any part of uniform), dead ball strike.

Yes, NCAA treats a pitch that is prevented from reaching the plate as a no pitch, you cannot acll a strike because you judge it would have been one. But that has no bearing the play being discussed, where the ball DID enter the strike zone, then hit the batter deeper in the box.

[GIMNEPIWO]

I am on a road trip, ASA, so no NCAA rulebook handy to cite rule numbers.

That said, NCAA has the same rule as ASA, in that any pitched ball that is a strike that hits the batter is a dead ball ball strike; there is not any differentiation in any rules set that I know of between swinging strikes, called strikes, or strikes because the batter didn't pull back after squaring to bunt. If a pitched strike contacts the batter (or any part of uniform), dead ball strike.

Yes, NCAA treats a pitch that is prevented from reaching the plate as a no pitch, you cannot acll a strike because you judge it would have been one. But that has no bearing the play being discussed, where the ball DID enter the strike zone, then hit the batter deeper in the box.

I was just speaking about Fredegers comment referencing ASA 7-4-M ...