Agressive play? Or agressive baserunning?

[Iluvblue]

If its not there its not there.

Well that is what i wanted to know.

What do you want? Did you protest? Have you since learned the rule and will next time protest?


Well it looks like I knew the rule already. There was no call made to protest, this was a discussion between innings about something he told the opposing coach. I was looking for clarification on what he meant.


Well then next time protest and this umps UIC can give you official clarification.


Again, nothing to protest until a play is made and then he makes his call.

I wouldnt talk to you or any other coach after that game either. Especially about a particular call. Most, 99% umpires, would not provide you with a post game rules clinic.



They are especially not going to give a clinic if they dont even know what they are talking about.


I dont know what this umpire meant. How could we possibly know?


Thats all I was looking for, if none of you understand what he meant, he was likely incorrect, or at the minimum, his explanation was just vague


If your runners are border line malicious he could be letting you know so he doesnt have to dump them and likely you as well. If they werent malicious, then I dont understand why he didnt call OBS (based on your scenario).



And this wouldnt even have been his call anyway. This was a situation where the runner at third was being blocked by the 3rd baseman who didnt have the ball and wasnt making a play. This would have been the field umpires call. The opposing coach approached the home plate blue inbetween innings and was asking if his third baseman could hold her ground apparently.

[Iluvblue]

The issue could be your runners "teardrop" turn. She established her baseline heading toward home plate. If her turn takes her out of the three foot baseline then your runner could be called out if a play is made and their is contact. Also if in the umpires opinion your runner is going out of her way to draw contract his interpretation of malicious intent comes into play. Best practice is to have your runner retreat, not make a teardrop turn.


As has been stated, my runner can do what she wants as long as she isnt avoiding a tag. There is no 3 foot lane in this situation. There is no doubt why my runner is doing what she is doing. She is getting in the throwing lane of any attempted pick off. That isnt against the rules, it is just good base running. This isnt the first time this has been an issue, and is is normally because of an opposing coach that doesnt like it. Sorry, we TRY to play smart. The best practice is NOT to retreat, that practice gets you picked off against good teams. And the runner is never looking for contact, the third baseman just needs to get out of the way, unless of course she has the ball. By the way, the runner isnt even looking towards third base, she is looking towards home as she is now running back to third base. She cant even see the third baseman, except at the last second.

[wadeintothem]

And this wouldnt even have been his call anyway. This was a situation where the runner at third was being blocked by the 3rd baseman who didnt have the ball and wasnt making a play. This would have been the field umpires call. The opposing coach approached the home plate blue inbetween innings and was asking if his third baseman could hold her ground apparently.

You are completely incorrect.

Any umpire can call OBS. I have called OBS at 3B many times as PU and as a matter of fact called it this weekend on a very similar play. (although the run scored so it was not an issue - but my hand was out)

If its a lead runner, I am especially watchful because my partner is picking up the trail runner.

[Iluvblue]

You talk letter of the law, i talk reality on the field.

I have NEVER seen a home plate umpire call obstruction on a third baseman, or a 1st or 2nd baseman on an attempted pickoff of a runner returning to the base. NEVER< NEVER< NEVER.
So i am sorry when you tell me any umpire can call it, the REALITY is that does not happen.
In this case, there was no other runners. So no way is the home blue going to step on his partners toes and do something that would be viewed by most as over ruling his partner.

And I never said the home plate cant call obstruction at third. runner at 1st base, and ball hit in gap, base ump is watching elsewhere and home plate WOULD make that call at third if the runner attempting to score is obstructed. That is not the play I was speaking of above.

That would be like the base ump calling interference on the hitter when the catcher is trying to throw out a runner stealing second. Im not sure, but I assume that umpire could also call interference ?? NO?? but will he? heck no.

[wadeintothem]

You are correct, I am talking letter of the law. I thought that was the purpose of your thread.

You gotta figure out what you want brother: either you want it the way you got it or you want to be educated on the letter of the law.

Maybe you just want more time to gripe?

[Iluvblue]

I want you to try and stop being like a lawyer and picking apart any word I say. When i speak on a forum, I am talking about the SPECIFIC play involved. You take the play involved, take what is said, and then twist it around so you can say, "SEE, you are wrong."


And nobody was griping in this thread. I was trying to figure out something that happened this weekend. When I have a doubt about a play or a rule, I dont just walk away. I try to make sure I get it so the next time it happens, ill know what to do, or how to instruct players.

So i will ask you again, on a pick play at a base and you are home blue with no other runners. You going to call obstruction on the defense on a play where you partner already made an out call? Even though the book allows you to? uh yeah, sure you will.

[wadeintothem]

Of course I have in the past and I'm sure I will in the future. Sometimes I see it and they dont.. possibly due to positioning or also possibly due to their experience and skill level.

Not every thing is as cut and dry as you make it out to be. The field is not a demarcated piece of pie apportioned evenly. It is a 2 person umpire team, which is already inadequate for proper coverage so we gotta work with each other. There are very few "never happens" in this game and because we sink or swim as a team, I would not follow "Iluvblue's coaches rules of umpiring mechanics". Sinking on a ball field is not my favorite thing and I'm pretty well familiar with how to git r' done.

Face it, you are as incorrect. Just accept it and move on. You no basis to support what you said.

Now I dont know exactly what your blue said, but I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt and based strictly on your scenarios and saying he was wrong and OBS should have been called. On the other hand, if a coach asked me if a third baseman could stand her ground, I tell them of course she can. Go for it! There is no rule against that. A SS can line up between 2B and 3B. F5 can stand her ground. Catcher can set up camp on home plate. All of that is within the rules. What a fielder cannot do is impede a runner without possession of the ball.

Crash interference would supercede INT, but since the fielder didnt have the ball.. that wouldnt apply. USC would be an ejection. Doesnt sound like we have that and I doubt I would call that or even have mentioned it to you about your runners. So that leaves OBS as the only possible answer to your runner being impeded.

[Iluvblue]

Face it, you are as incorrect. Just accept it and move on. You no basis to support what you said.


Dont even know what you are talking about, but i will agree with you.

[wadeintothem]

lol...
hmm since I'd have to reread it to find out what you are wrong about cuz I cant remember myself .. just let that be a lesson to you.. the umpire is always right!

[Iluvblue]

By the way, beer on me in Fresno!